I cast 458 and 51 caliber bullets for subsonic loads from wheel weights and crimp on gas checks. Is bullet lube really needed for hard cast subsonic loads? The barrels I use them in are very smooth and so far I do not have any leading problems.

Is lube really required in this case? I thought I would ask before giving it a try without lube.

Ranb

You could try cutting the amount of lube groves used with lube. I just cut back by one so I am using 2 out of 3 lube groves.

You could try paper patching, requires no lube! But now you have to rap them in paper.

I already only lube the lower grooves. I use Lee alox and Lee dies. Lubing is just a chore I would rather avoid.

Ranb

why not just load ten rounds and find out?

Illini

quote:

Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
why not just load ten rounds and find out?

Illini

after shooting the first one, pull the bolt and look down the barrel.(from the reseaver side!) and see if there is much change in the barrel, if not shoot 4 more, then take a peek again.
If your still good, repeat the next 5. Better safe then sorry.
I could try it also. I just need to cast some first. with out lube.
Do you gas check them?? What kind of powder do you use?

For the 300 whisper, 338 whisper, 458 socom and 510 whisper subsonic loads and 44 mag I use surplus WC820 (like H110). The 51 and 458 caliber bullers I cast require gas checks to keep from tumbling, which is a really bad thing when using them with a silencer. The rest just seem to benefit a little with the gas check.

Ranb

Hell sounds like I should cast up a few to see what happens for ya. We are using the same lead for casting. My rifle is not fitted for anything to cover up the end. I will also will need to see if the same happens to my bullets if I remove the GC.
Too bad 303Guy is not in this thread with us. He likes to experiment about such topics. But has been sucked into paper patching.

No GC's no lube and at full powder charges!
Those bullets have a tendency to be more accurate because of less drag from lack of lube groves and no GC's chancing to fall off or seated uneven.

Now i just need to find the time to do some casting.

quote:

Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
why not just load ten rounds and find out?

Illini

I can try it myself. I was just looking to see if anyone had already tried it. It might take more than ten loads to see if it leads up too.

The 950 grain CBE cast bullet would yaw 90 degrees and group at over a foot within 25 yards. Crimping on the gas check eliminated the yawing and grouped at 3 inches at 100 yards.

Ranb

Hum....Well my plan was to back off the lube groves used on my mold. I hadn't tried to remove the gas check yet. But would me for a fun day at the range. I bet my friends would love to observe this experiment. One of them being the president of the range.

I ll be sure to take photos and have all the status of the shots.
Gun- 1903A3 Springfield
Cal.- 30-06
Range- 25?, 50, and 100yds
target- Winchester 18 pack (2bucks at hell...I mean walmart)

Leaving off the check depends completely on the boolit, velocity and match to the twist rate of both. Remember you are losing a drive band and shortening the boolit. You can do it with one boolit and gun but not another.
Case in point, I had a 30-30 TC and used the RCBS silhouette boolit. With a scope from a rest I could hit a nickel at 100 yards all day. I ran out of checks and loaded without them.
I could not hit a thing so I moved to 50 yards to find every single boolit was going through the paper sideways.
I can only say to try what you have, there is nothing to lose.
I also want a tight fit to the check. I want it to stay on until impact, not half of them fly off when the boolit leaves the barrel.

I wouldn't try it in my gun - too much effort to get leading out!
But, air rifle pellets don't use lube, so ....

I would suggest that if the chamber pressure is low enough that there is zero bullet to bore pressure, it might be do-able. I would try two things;
1 - Start with a lubed bore and rely on powder residue as a bore lube.
2 - Roll the bullet on a lube pad with STP on it, either before or after seating and hope the residual STP is enough - again starting out with a pre-lubed bore (with STP).

No doubt there are other lubes one could try but I know that STP is quite difficult to clean off!

Haven't tried them without lube, but contrary to my "joke" thread about not using gas checks--Ive omitted the gas check on gas check designed molds in both .22's and 6MM and really couldn't tell any difference. This was in the 2000-2500 fps area.

Kind if like asking if the wheel bearings should have grease in them!