The second, seven-digit number in J. Wisner's list above is a computer-friendly number used by Lyman for stock control. The old one, two or three digit numbers are the ones everyone uses, and can be used for ordering from Lyman, RCBS or the various suppliers. The Lyman Annual Product Catalogs (available free on request to Lyman Customer Service) list both numbers for all current bullets, handy as a cross reference. As to the Cast Bullet Handbooks (the 1st Edition was called the "Handbook of Cast Bullets", the later ones "Cast Bullet Handbook"), in addition to the current issue (!as of 1980; we're sure due for a new one!), the older editions of 1958 and 1973 list the common numbers for a lot of obsolete and discontinued bullets. (You really need copies of all three Cast Bullet Handbooks, as no one of them gives the whole picture; 1st Edition only gives a few weights, 2nd leaves out the historical data; 3rd only pictures the most popular bullets in common calibers.) Several of us have good reference files on Lyman/Ideal mould history, and CASTPICS has a lot of good stuff. If you've got questions, post them here or PM me. floodgate

The shanks are standard in between Lyman and RCBS. Likely Saeco, too, but I have never used any of those.

Base of the bullet is the steering end so I don't worry a lot about nose punches as long as they don't tear the nose up badly. Little ring or slight flattening don't bother me at all.

This can get messy at times.

RCBS and Lyman Top punches will interchange, also they use the same 3 diget (old Lyman) numbering system.

Saeco top punches are availble for both Saeco and Lyman/RCBS sizers. I am just getting into Saceo moulds now and have not gotten any top punches yet so can not say about the numbering system.

I have a plastic parts box with 44 drawers.
This way I can keep the Lyman, RCBS, NEI, Custom, Saeco, top punches all separte.

Below is an copy of how I keep my moulds and things together.

Brand Mould # cav Description of Bullet TP# Cond Owner Notes

Lyman 225438 dc 44 gr RN GC .224 dia 438 u JW 22 Hornet
Lyman 225438 dc 44 gr RN GC .224 dia 438 nib JW 22 Hornet
Lyman 225462 sc * 57 gr RN GC .225 dia 438 u LW 223 Rem, 22-250 Rem

Lyman 245497 dc 93 gr RN GC .245 dia 203 nib LW 243, 6mm

Lyman 257312 dc 89 gr FP GC .258 dia 420 u LW 25-35 WCF
Lyman 257325 dc 113 gr RN GC .258 dia 325 nib LW 25-35 WCF
Lyman 257464 dc 89 gr RN GC .258 dia 463 nib JW Loverin

Lyman 280468 dc 115 gr RN GC .279 dia 468 u LW Loverin, 270 WCF

Lyman 285346 dc 135 gr RN GC .285 dia 346 u LW
Lyman 287308 dc 164 gr PT RN GC .285 dia 468 u LW
Lyman 287405 dc 150 gr RN GC .285 dia 346 nib JW Loverin

Saeco 254 dc 115 gr RN BB .309 dia nib JW 30 Carbine
Lyman 311227 dc 90 gr RN PB .312 dia 465 u LW 30 Luger
Lyman 311245 dc 87 gr RN PB .312 dia 465 u LW 30 Mauser
Lyman 311284 dc 214 gr PT RN GC .309 dia 467 u LW
Lyman 311291 dc 170 gr RN GC .309 dia 291 uib LW
Lyman 311316 dc 112 gr FN GC .311 dia 8 u LW 32-20 WCF
Lyman 311359 sc * 115 SPT GC .309 dia 359 u LW 30 Carbine
Lyman 311410 dc 130 gr PT RN PB .309 dia 467 uib JW 30 Carbine
Lyman 311413 dc 169 gr SPT GC .309 dia 413 u LW
Lyman 311466 dc 152 gr PT RN GC .309 dia 467 u LW Loverin
Lyman 311466 dc 152 gr PT RN GC .309 dia 467 uib JW Loverin

Lyman 313492 sc 93 gr WC .314 dia 445 u LW 32 S&W
Lyman 313492 dc 93 gr WC .314 dia 445 n JW 32 S&W
RCBS 32-98 SWC dc 98 gr SWC PB .313 dia R444 nib JW 32 H&R
Saeco 325 dc 95 gr SWC PB .313 dia nib JW 32 S&W, 32 H&R

Lyman 321297 dc 181 gr FP GC .324 dia 297 nib LW 32 Win Spl

RCBS 33-200 FN dc 200 gr FN GC .338 dia R505 nib LW 33 Win

Lyman 350319 dc 167 gr RN GC .352 dia 447 nib LW 351 WSL
Lyman 350457 4 cav 250 gr FN GC .349 dia 447 u LW Loverin, 348 Win

Lyman 356242 dc 90 gr RN PB .356 dia 311 uib JW 380 ACP
Lyman 356402 sc 121 gr TC PB .356 dia 402 u LW 9mm Luger
Lyman 356632 dc 100 gr TC PB .356 dia uib JW 380 ACP
Saeco 115 4 cav 122 gr RN BB .356 dia u JW 9mm Luger
Lyman 356634 4cav 130 gr TC PB .356 dia u JW 9mm Luger
Lyman 356634 4 cav 130 gr TC PB .356 dia nib JW 9mm Luger

Lyman 358091 dc 150 gr WC .358 dia 495 u LW 38 Spl
Lyman 358156 dc 155 gr SWC GC .358 dia 429 u LW 357 Mag
Lyman 358242 dc 121 gr RN PB .358 dia 311 u LW
Lyman 358242 sc 121 gr RN PB .358 dia 311 u LW
Lyman 358311 dc 158 gr RN PB .358 dia 311 u LW 38 Spl
Lyman 358311 4 cav 158 gr RN PB .358 dia 311 u JW 38 Spl
Lyman 358315 sc 204 gr RN GC .358 dia 311 u LW 35 Rem
Lyman 358315 dc 204 gr RN GC .358 dia 311 nib LW 35 Win
Lyman 358429 4 cav 160 gr SWC PB .358 dia 429 u JW 357 Mag
RCBS 358-200 FP dc 200 gr RN FP GC .358 dia R565 n JW 35 Rifles
Saeco 352 dc 245 gr RN FP GC .358 dia uib LW 35 Rifles
Old W 360-270 FP dc 270 gr RN FP GC .358 dia u LW 35 Rifles

Lyman 364615 sc 128 gr Maxi Ball .364 dia n JW 36 cal Maxi

Lyman 366408 dc 245 gr FN GC .367 dia 295 u LW Loverin, 9.3mm

Lyman 375449 dc 264 gr FP GC .377 dia 449 uib JW 375 H&H

Lyman 386177 dc 196 gr RN Heel PB , 41 LC 167 uib LW 41 Long Colt

Lyman 375 sc roundball u LW
Shilo 375 4 cav roundball u LW

Lyman 40143 dc 172 gr FN PB .403 dia 43 u LW 38-40 WCF

Old W 408-280 FN dc 280 gr FN GC .408 dia u LW 40-65 WCF

Lyman 410426 dc 240 gr RN PB .411 dia 263 uib LW 401 WSL
Lyman 410610 dc 215 gr SWC GC .411dia 610 nib LW 41 Mag

Lyman 429215 dc 210 gr SWC GC .430 dia 421 nib LW
Lyman 429244 dc 245 gr SWC GC .430 dia 421 u LW 44 Mag
Lyman 429360 sc 210 gr SWC GC .430 dia 360 u LW
Lyman 429360 dc 210 gr SWC GC .430 dia 360 nib JW
Lyman 429383 dc 245 gr RN PB .430 dia 251 uib LW 44 Spl
Lyman 429421 sc Hollow point 421 u JW
Lyman 429421 4 cav 245 gr SWC PB .430 dia 421 nib JW 44 Mag
RCBS 44-300 SWC dc 300 gr SWC PB .430 dia R421 u JW 44 Mag

RCBS 43-370-FN dc 370 gr FN .439 dia R585 nib LW 43 Mauser

RCBS 440 dc Round Ball n JW

Lyman 445599 sc 250 gr Mini .445 dia u LW Mini Ball

Lyman 450229 sc 155 gr Mini hollow base pistol u LW

Lyman 452374 dc 225 gr RN PB .452 dia 374 uib LW 45 ACP
Lyman 452374 4 cav 225 gr RN PB .452 dia 374 u JW 45 ACP
Lyman 452424 dc 255 gr SWC PB .452 dia 424 u LW 45 Long Colt
Lyman 452460 dc 200 gr SWC PB .452 dia 460 u LW 45 ACP
Lyman 452490 dc 255 gr SWC GC .452 dia 424 uib LW 45 Long Colt

Lyman 454613 sc 265 gr Mini Ball .454 dia u LW 45 Mini
Lyman 454616 sc 245 gr Maxi-Ball .454 dia u JW 45 Maxi

Lee 456-220-1r sc 220 gr RN .457 dia u LW Ruger Old Army 45

Lyman 457191 sc 292 gr RN FP PB .458 dia 191 nib LW 45-70 Govt

NEI 505-540 RN dc 540 gr + RN GC .506 dia N506 u JW 505 Gibbs

NEI 512-435 FP 3 cav 435 gr + FN GC .512 dia N512 u JW 50-110 WCF

Lyman 509133 sc 435 gr RN FP PB.510 dia 191 u JW 50-110 WCF
Lyman 515141 sc 450 gr RN FP PB .512 dia 141 uib LW 50-70 Govt
Lyman 515141 sc 450 gr RN FP PB .512 dia 141 uib JW 50-70 Govt

Lyman 540619 sc 405 gr Maxi Ball .540 dia u JW 54 Maxi

Lyman 548669 sc 445 gr RN FP .548 dia nib JW 54 Power Shocker Maxi

Also an copy of the chart from the old Lyman number to the new Numbers.

TOP PUNCH NUMBERS FOR LYMAN

old # new #
8 2786690
43 2786691
93 2786754
132 2786695
141 2786696
167
190 2786700
191 2786701
203 2786748
226 2786703
251 2786704
263
284 2786707
291
295
297
303 2786709
311 2786710
325
346 2786715
348 2786716
359 2786772
360 2786717
374 2786719
402 2786723
413 2786725
415 2786726
420 2786728
421 2786729
424 2786730
429 2786731
430 2786732
438 2786733
447
449 2786736
460 2786740
463 2786741
465 2786742
467 2786743
468
470 2786745
495 2786769
496 2786748
610
637 2786749
641 2786753
644 2786758
646 2786759
649 2786778
658 2786755
663 2786779

I copied these lists from notepad so the colums are not were they should be.

Regards.
Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

Oh boy! I know the deal. I have over a hundred.

I finally made a pull-out shelf and drilled holes in it to take the shanks with the cavity pointing up.

Then, I placed them in rows by the normal caliber.

This way, if you're doing a round nose .30, you can instantly pick what looks right and give it the nose "spin test". If it's marking, you may have to go to a .32,

Then, I have a flat top punch for each caliber that's used on any flat nose/wadcutter/SWC. This eliminated about half of the problems.

This method works for me. That digging through compartments in a plastic box sucks./beagle

Woody, I found the pages that you listed in my cast bullet handbood #3 but it was printed in 1980 and some #'s are old and some of the newer #'s are not listed. I sent Lyman a request for a newer mould and top punch listing but don't know if I'll get anything or not. What I need is a flat nose 7mm top punch for my 145grn Saeco mould and I asked Lyman about that in my email also. BM

Bill

If it was me and a Lyman 420 or #8 wouldn't work, I'd prob'ly just make a straight FN out of a 1/4" bolt. Regards, Woody

That is the same reply I got from Lyman two weeks ago.

It seems they do not or are not able to supply odd or old top punches any more.

What I will be doing is making my own top punches to fit the older odd bullets.

You can reuse an old top punch or lathe turn a new one. Just make sure the O.D. of the punch nose is smaller than the size die. Select one that is close to the shape of the bullet nose. Then seat a bullet part way into the sizer. Remove the top punch and with a Dremel tool and stone rough up the nose cavity. Coat the bullet nose with release agent and then mix some expoxy up and put in the top punch cavity and reassemble the top punch in the sizer and lower the handle until the top punch matches up with the bullet nose. Let it set up over night and the take apart and clean up excess. You now have a top punch that matches your bullet nose.

You should remark it to match with the proper number so you won"t forget what it is later.

Saeco does make top punches to fit their bullets and RCBS or Lyman sizers. You will have to check with Redding/Saeco to find a list of wholesalers, or retailers.

Jim Wisner
Custom Metalsmith

A way of making a custom-fitted top punch for a bullet using JB Weld stiff paste epoxy goes like this.

Pick a "larger" cone top punch. Clean it with solvent until it is adhesion clean.

Install a bullet STRAIGHT and TRUE in your lubriciser die all the way down so just the nose is sticking out a distance such that you can settle your punch on it with some room for a bit of epoxy to ooze out.

Oil the protruding bullet nose and the top of the sizer die & the lock nut with a thin coating of oil to act as a release compound.

Fill the cup of the sacrifical nose punch part way with JB Weld stiff two part paste epoxy. Install it in the ram with the ID marking to the front (so you can always put it back in the same way later). Settle it down over the bullet nose until the lead contacts the bottom of the pocket. Then let it sit over night, letting the handle maintain a very light clamping pressure between top punch and bullet.

Next day, lift the handle. If the bullet comes out with the top punch, you will have to tap the bullet sideways with something to break the epoxy bond on the bullet nose. Take the fitted top punch out and grind/sand/trim the oozed epoxy even with the cup mouth.

It is easier/cheaper than lathing one up.

Oldfeller