Quote: If I'm reading you correctly, you have 250 165 gr RN PB boolits that you figure to use in a 30-30!
Well H#((, there are a TON of potential loads for them, and you may as well try all of them, 'cause at the end you still get to start all over with a NEW, repeatable boolit! What do you have to lose (or gain)?
Just to relieve frustration, though, I would stay away from the Full Bore (hot) loads. No sense spending more time scrubbing Pb from the bore than you have to spend.
Or you could save a lot of money and effort and just melt them down and cast them into 311041, or another useful cast boolit, for the 30-30.
I guess you lost me what do you mean by a repeatable bullet? I guess you think that PB bullets are useless and I should just go with gas checked? I probably will in the future but now I still have these bullets to shoot up. Jim
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003
Be sure Jim that one of the most accurate forms of shooten involves the use of plain based bullets. This the Schuetzen game where the best groups at 100 are a mere hole in the paper.
You can have alot of enjoyable shooten with PB bullets...
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001
I was wondering about that previous post I know gas checks have their uses and I suppose neccessary for faster velocity though I suppose a guy could try the paper patching or maybe greased wads under the bullets? I do know my 45/70 works fine with the hollow base bullet I shoot out of that and in the old days gas checks were not invented and they got along good. I would guess shooting a plain base bullet for average shooting and plinking is what I would want to keep the cost down. I do suppose that Gas checked bullets may have to be used for hunting purposes to get the velocity where it belongs. I have read of guys that shoot GC bullets both ways checked and unchecked depending on what velocity they shoot the bullet at. What is your opinions on that? Jim
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003
Hello, Jim. I have far less experience than these other guys, but have shot those very bullets. They were made down the road from me. I used Unique, and ended up using H4198 at about 15gr. This provided satisfactory accuracy. I always like to have something a little more flexible, so I started making my own. Probably not worth the trouble, because there are good available gas checked bullets out there. I love casting my own because of the increased amount of accuracy I have been able to obtain. I shoot 45-70, 30-30, and 357. I have plain base molds in the 45-70 only and have only used about 20 bullets. The performance at the velocities I choose is just too much greater with the gas checked. The bullet you speak of is somewhat similar to Lyman's 311041 that is gas checked. My groups went from about 3 inches with a scope to MOA overnight. This is with a 336SS and 336CB. My 357 is not that accurate, but am improving all the time. The 45-70 shoots well with any velocity. I now have a new Gould bullet mold I have to experiment a little bit with. Making them is somewhat slow, but for such a light bullet that is not gas checked, it shoots pretty well. I think my best group with this bullet was about 1.5 inch at 1500fps with the H4198. This is supposed to be a premier deer hunting bullet because of its hollow point. Just one more thing to experiment on.
I've been vetting a new powder for cast-- Aliant 'Steel'. Nothing to report of mertit yet, but last trip I loaded 10 ea #7625 and said Steel [only 8 fired at this paper]. 7625 took took the Steel out by a wide margin and actually did quite well shooten the Lee 180 PB's. I might try a filler with the Steel next..
Note the loading of Blue Dot at right-- 12 rds fired with five in the far right hole. I am finding the finer grained and faster speeds shooten better at these low speeds and low density loadings.
Windy and cold this day-- up to 15 mph from 10-1 O'clock.
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001
[quoteI guess you lost me what do you mean by a repeatable bullet? I guess you think that PB bullets are useless and I should just go with gas checked? I probably will in the future but now I still have these bullets to shoot up. Jim
I believe what he was saying is you only have 250 bullets. Don't waste a lot of time finding a great load for them, 'cause you can't get any more. Shoot 'em up and find a new (repeatable) source. Then work on a serious load development program.
Posts: 30 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: 30 August 2003
Greg Mushial has tested several powders in the .30-30 with 170 gr. plain based cast bullets. You can review his data at: http://www.gmdr.com/lever/otrail.htm
Click on 170 gr. .30-30 on the left hand side of the page.
Good Luck, w30wcf
Posts: 41 | Location: Erie, PA | Registered: 23 December 2002
"I believe what he was saying is you only have 250 bullets. Don't waste a lot of time finding a great load for them, 'cause you can't get any more. Shoot 'em up and find a new (repeatable) source. Then work on a serious load development program"
Other side of this coin is the fella spends the time with these 250 finding a good load or loads, gets hooked on shooten PB's and goes on to buy several molds and has a grand time shooten.
Getting any bullet to shooten accuracy IMO is much more interastin' than trigger squeezin'.
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001
Quote: "I believe what he was saying is you only have 250 bullets. Don't waste a lot of time finding a great load for them, 'cause you can't get any more. Shoot 'em up and find a new (repeatable) source. Then work on a serious load development program"
Other side of this coin is the fella spends the time with these 250 finding a good load or loads, gets hooked on shooten PB's and goes on to buy several molds and has a grand time shooten.
Getting any bullet to shooten accuracy IMO is much more interastin' than trigger squeezin'.
I'd say casting your own is a good repeatable source. Probably the best. But it's a waste of time working up a load for 250 bullets you can't get any more of. Not every trip to the range has to be serious load development and the quest for a tighter group. "Trigger squeezin'" has it's own simple pleasure.
Posts: 30 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: 30 August 2003
Quote: Greg Mushial has tested several powders in the .30-30 with 170 gr. plain based cast bullets. You can review his data at: http://www.gmdr.com/lever/otrail.htm
Click on 170 gr. .30-30 on the left hand side of the page.
Good Luck, w30wcf
Thanks for the info. I guess #1 I shoot a winchester and got one because I have heard of the cast/ micro groove controversy. I suppose marlins can shoot some cast with the micro groove barrels but with Marlin going to the ballard rifleing for guys who want to shoot cast that says something I guess. Anyway I am shooting a mod 94 Win. #2 After reading his less than glowing statements of the 30/30 and 32 special I was turned off right there. His comments of the 30/30 being a wounder was to me BS with him reading some outdoors writer who is a magnum fan. I am not saying that the 30/30 has never wounded a deer of course it has as the 06 and the 308 and the 270 and the yada yada yada they have all wounded deer and if a deer was wounded with any of these calibers it comes down to bullet placement not the caliber. Any one who is supposed to be in the know would make that comment over being the biggest wounder catagory. His opinion just like this is mine but his comments did turn me off as some one repeating a myth and taking it as gospel. I look at it this way I bet I could shoot more deer with a 22 mag and kill them all with good bullet placement than a lousy shot with any caliber they choose. I have no idea who this Greg fellow is and maybe he knows his reloading stuff I do not know I do know his comments do not wash on the 30/30 or 32. Bullet placement is the key period. Jim
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003
I have corresponded with Greg and I can tell you that he is first and foremost a gentleman. Some of the information that he gives on the .30-30 came from Hodgdon's handbook 26, especially the part on wounding more deer. No doubt, some of the other information came from other sources and he is presenting what others have said (somewhat incorrectly, I might add). I definitely agree with what you said. Bullet placement is key.
Secondly, he has done a lot of testing (50,000+ rounds) with plain based cast bullets and definitely knows how to shoot. Please see the results from Ranch Dogs 2003 Postal Match here: http://www.gmdr.com/RanchDogPM2003/RanchDogPM2003.htm
I do appreciate all of the work he has done in testing plain based bullets. It is very useful information. I'll have to give him some additional historic info on the famous .30-30.
w30wcf
Posts: 41 | Location: Erie, PA | Registered: 23 December 2002
Jim there is none. Only exists in the neophyte world of shooters.. In truth, the micro's are often the best cast shooters. They run to the large side and want larger bullets of course, but shooten they do.
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001
Quote: I suppose marlins can shoot some cast with the micro groove barrels but with Marlin going to the ballard rifleing for guys who want to shoot cast that says something I guess.
It says that Marlin wanted to sell rifles and pay attention to what their customers want. Their customers have read that silly warning about Microgrooves being unsuitable for cast bullets at speeds above 1600 FPS so many times that they believe it. Or they've just heard that "Microgroove barrels won't shoot cast." At any rate, would-be cast bullet shooters were demanding "Ballard" rifling and Marlin gave it to them. "Ballard" rifling is a term that I suspect means little, but it conjures up nice pictures of old fashioned target rifles.
Posts: 1325 | Location: Bristol, Tennessee, USA | Registered: 24 December 2003
I am not doubting he can shoot or is a good shot most of us who frequent these types of places are. We come here to gain more knowledge and to have fellowship with fellow shooters. I guess I do not doubt his testing or knowedge just that his comments either out of a reloading guide or his views I just did not agree with. I did not mean to bad mouth him I just ment to state my views that I disagreed. Jim
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003
You guys know more about the Marlins and that issue with the rifleing. I just prefer Winchester levers for some reason even though the Marlins have more going for it as far as the side ejection and easy scope mounting. I guess that does not bother me as I like peep sights on lever guns. My 94 wears a Williams peep and a fiber optic front sight. Makes a nice combination. Jim
Posts: 5226 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 March 2003
I've tried H-4198 cowboy loads recommended by Hodgdon. But wasn't real happy with those loads. The H-4198 would probably be ideal with a gas checked bullet. But it didn't work well me with the plain based Mid-Kansas RNFP.
