Last night while looking over a number of targets I noticed on a large number of my rifle (Rossi .357 SS)targets there were occasional indications of bullet tipping at 50 yards. It was more prevelant with 358429 but also happened to a lesser degree with my rn 158 H&G and Lee 158 rnfp. It happens at both 38 and 357 velocities. I almost never see this from the same ammo out of either my Ruger or Smith pistols. The rifle twist rate is 16.5 (per Rossi) and the pistols are both 18". Could this be a barrel crown issue or something else?? I'm primarily a pistol shooter and am totally ignorant when it comes to rifles as far as throats, bedding, etc. Any ideas as to why this is happening would be appreciated. Nick

bullet tipping is very common in 38 spec. loads. The full wad cutter does it most.

The rifle twist rate is 30. Or least is used to be. That would be a little slow for a 358, but not for a short 44 boolit. See if you can eyeball the barrel to see what is going on. ... felix

[ 09-13-2003, 19:19: Message edited by: felix ]

I've owned two Rossi's. One in 357 and the other in 45 LC. Both great and very accurate rifles. I shot all kinds of load out of the 357 rifle including 38's. This rifle was particularly accurate. What kind of load are you shooting with the 357's as to powder and brand of bullet?

I disagree with 243 saying 38 wadcutters tip alot. I've shot a tremendous amount of 38 full wadcutters out of many revolvers and never once seen a case of tipping with them at reasonable distances. Don't forget they are target loads not 100 yd or more loads.

Sounds to me that your bullet isn't getting enough spin. I'm wondering if it is stripping through the rifling. Like Felix said check out the inside of your barrel.

Joe

[QUOTE]Originally posted by starmetal:

I disagree with 243 saying 38 wadcutters tip alot. I've shot a tremendous amount of 38 full wadcutters out of many revolvers and never once seen a case of tipping with them at reasonable distances. Don't forget they are target loads not 100 yd or more loads.



To see tipping, shoot at a targer of heavy material, not paper. You will see a hole that is not completely round. It is very hard to see sometimes but it is there. We are not talking about key holing, where the side of the bullet hits. 243winxb

Felix--the twist in the barrel appears to be just what Rossi says it is. The barrel is 23" long and the rifleing appears to make about 1 1/2 turns in the length of the bbl. The gun is fairly accurate shooting 2 to 4" @100yds most of the time. It has just made me curious why I'm seeing tipping when I've rarely seen it with the same loads out of my revolvers. Nick

fecmec....I'd suspect the twist is not fast enough. If, as felix says, it's 1 in 30, that may be the problem. The 358429 is about as long as you'll get in the 38/357 Mag bullets.

I've had slight tipping out of a Marlin 357 Carbine with the 358430 (195 grain version)loaded in 38 Special cases. In 357 Mag cases and a little higher velocity, there's no problems. Think this is either a 1-16 or 1-18 twist...I foget although I've measured it. No problems whatsoever with the 358429 in it with tipping.

The 358627 215 grainer for the 357 Max I guess is the longest that a production mould is made for.

I'd suspect the twist or velocity that you're shooting them at./beagle

Something is surely screwed up. If you can actually see a turn and a half, then it ain't a twist problem, per se. Something is destroying that boolit. ... felix

After reading the replies to this thread this morning I did what I should have done in the first place and go through all the targets and see if there was any pattern. My initial impression from the original few targets I had looked at was that the tipping was mainly Keith bullets in both 38 and 357 velocity range. In fact while there were a couple of tippers in the higher speed range that were Keiths but there were many more of all types ( 158 rn and rnfp) along with the Keiths and they were in the 1000 to 1100 fps range and like Beagle mentioned in 38 cases. The real eye opener was that they all were loads using ww 231 powder 4.9 to 6.0 grs. I load both bullseye and 231 in my 38’s to approx 900fps out of my pistols and both loads will group well and no tipping at 50 yards or 100 for that matter out of my pistols. Also the bullseye loads showed no tipping out of the rifle at all and they are running the same velocity as 231. Felix made the remark that something was destroying the bullet and I wonder if that something is 231 or it’s burning characteristics ?? Maybe the longer barrel time or something with the bullet jump to the throat in the rifle is letting the 231 affect the bullet base in some way?? This winter I will shoot some 231 and BE loads out of the rifle into the snow and see what if anything shows up on the bullet bases. For now though the 231 loads will be revolter only. Nick

fecmech...That might be a place to start by looking at the bases.

I've shot a bunch of WW231 and Saeco 398s in my Marlin in 38 cases and haven't noticed a problem. Most were used for plinking and it may have escaped me since there were no paper holes to look at.

Sometimes, fast burners do strange things to bullets, You may want to try something a little slower and see if that helps. I've burned a bunch of Blue Dot in 38 loads in the .357 carbines with good results./beagle