I am in the process of putting together a 22 Cooper Centerfire Magnum pistol and am considering cast bullets for plinking. The capacity of the case is slightly smaller than the Hornet. What has been your experience with gas checked cast bullets in the 22's??



[ 08-10-2003, 03:06: Message edited by: MSSmagnum ]

This should be a can of worms....
I have had several 224 moulds and only one of them was easy enough to get decent bullets out of to warrant keeping it and that is an NEI 55 grain pointed gascheck bullet with Loverin style rings, but I still have very high reject rate.
My excursions with Lymans were too painful for my limited paitence, when the bullets were good, they shot well, but reject rate ran about 70-80 percent. I recommend that you get a quality mould, cast with straight linotype, flux very often and expect lots of rejects when you inspect. I don't know the mechanics of it, but I have great success with .270 bullets and above, especially good with .30's, but these 224s have repeatedly kicked my butt.
My hornet likes cast bullets when they are done right, it's just getting the bullets right that seems much more difficult than it should be. I hope you have better luck, patience and you already probably have better skill than I, so good luck.

regards,
Graycg

I dont plan on casting any bullets meself. I have never gotten into this as i have always been able to find the cast bullets that i want from a commercial outfit and the price has been right. I have looked at a couple of different places that offer them and am just curious what kind of experience you guys have had with them. Sounds like tryin to cast them is a real PITA.

I only have one 22 caliber mold, a Lyman #225415. I found the best way to get good bullets was to hold the nozzle of the melting pot hard up against the pour hole and hold it there for about five seconds. Then, as I lower the mold allow enough metal to form the sprue. The reject rate dropped dramatically using this method. I also do this with a lightweight 25 caliber bullet I use in my 25-35.
Paul B.

Yes, I use the Lyman 224415 a 55-grain flatpoint gascheck, in my .22 Hornet with 4 grains of Unique. MV is around 1400 FPS, almost a .22 LR equivalent. Very accurate, too.

I use the NEI .224-71-gc in my .223 Savage. They cast just as easily as any other bullet and shoot well under minute of angle up to 2400 fps.

Hi Andrew375

What lube do you use? I'm having problems with the accuracy of several rifles once I get about about 1900-2000fps (I'm using Lee's Liquid Alox tumble lube).

I'd prefer to buy a lube in Europe, but I recognize that I might have to cook up my own, so I'm wondering what has worked for you.

(by the way, I'm still using the load of VV140 in my .375 H&H that you recommended!)

jpb

quote:

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Originally posted by andrew375:
I use the NEI .224-71-gc in my .223 Savage. They cast just as easily as any other bullet and shoot well under minute of angle up to 2400 fps.

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MSSmagnum...treat them the same as any cast but be very meticulous when inspecting. Even weighing helps. Only difference is it's hard handling the small sizes and it's difficult to seat the GC's w/o bending the noses so be careful.

I shoot the RCBS 22-55-SP, the Lyman 225646, a Lyman 225415, a Lyman 22596 and a Lyman 225450 in my .223 Number 1 Ruger with good results as long as I stay below 2100 FPS with the alloy I have.

It's cheap shooting and brass is plentiful and it's stingy on powder./beagle

I will, most likely, try to keep velocity of the cast bullets below 1100 fps. I am looking for a subsonic plinking round. Does anyone see a problem with the gas check at these velocities??

I figure that i will be able to use AA #2 and a charge of about 2-3 grains of powder to obtain this. AA #5 might also work for this application.....

I shoot the 58 grain RCBS in 222 and 22-250. Both shoot it well at 2000-2200fps. Can't get it to shoot in my .223. Slightly higher reject rate but not bad.

Paul B,

Which 25 mould are you using in your 25-35? I have that and a 25-20 I would like to cast for to go along with my 32-20.

# 1 Son has about taken over the 32 so I need something to shoot.

Regards,

.......I've had very good luck with cast bullets in my Savage M112 single shot (12" twist). When casting I use pure lino in a pre-heated mould (corner held in the melt for a 15 count). I use a system called "The Standing Wave" with the sprue hole about 1" below the nozzle and fill until I see alloy 'bounce' back up out and them let a bit more flow.

Culling bullets for visual defects doesn't usually net very many junkers, discarding the first 5-6 casts. For best accuracy though, you MUST scale the bullets as tightly as you can. Probably 20% fall outside the median weight. These get used for sighters to get on target without having to waste good experimental ammo.

The gas checks must be seated fully and sqaurely on the base of the bullet. Part of the inspection process is to make sure the spreu parting scar isn't 'proud' of the base as this can cock the GC. In sizing no undue pressure can be used as the bullets themselves aren't much larger than the lube hole through the die. Extra pressure on the press handle may actually cause a bit of the bullet to extrude into these enough to be marked.

Casemouths need to be sqaurely belled so the seated bullet isn't cocked or off axis. These things are really nothing different that pains taken to load truly accurate cast bullet ammo that has a bit more going for it than a bang and some recoil :-).

I know you said you weren't interested in casting your own, and I really believe you're missing a superb opportunity for a fascinating segment of the hobby.

So, some load data. These are from a 26" bbl and are 223's. Data will be Vel/ES/SD

Lyman 225438/43.0grs sized .225" scaled to 0.1gr.
Bullseye:
1.0 = 460/111/40
1.1 = 560/14/6
1.2 = 640/83/33
1.3 = 733/93/39
1.4 = 780/107/34
These were a pian as the muzzle had to be tilted up, otherwise the bullet might lodge in the barrel.

Red Dot:
3.5 = 1440/117/35 50 yds 10 rnds = .800"
4.0 = 1530/128/37 " " = 2.0"
4.5 = 1665/97/32 " " = 1.10"
5.0 = 1750/48/14 " " = 2.5"
5.5 = 1895/67/25 " " = 2.25"

H4227:
9.0 = 1582/67/29 " " = .776"

WC820:
6.0 = 1442/46/19 " " = .653"
7.0 = 1644/39/12 " " = .736"
8.0 = 1834/88/34 " " = 1.20"
9.0 = 2007/91/28 " " = 1.17"
10.0 = 2051/176/56 " " = 2.00"

Next was the Lyman 225646 @ 56grs. Powder was H4198. Fired at 50 yards they were 3 shot groups:
11.0 to 14.0grs in 1/2gr increments neeted velocities from 1775 to 2190. No group exceeded .750". The best load was 13 and 13.5 grs so I split the diff and loaded 13.3grs for 2130 fps. Two groups fired at 50 yards were .447" and .653". Five rounds fired at 100 yards was 1.135".

..........Buckshot

WOW! Excellent info Whitworth92374!! Thanks, a buddy has a 223 and we might try some of that info in his barrel.

[ 08-26-2003, 05:12: Message edited by: MSSmagnum ]

MSS: Did you know that the .22 CCM case is a modernized version of the .22 Velo-Dog (in fact, Cooper's brass was made by Fiocchi - under strict supervision! - on their VD machinery), which itself is a clone of the ancient .22 Extra-Long Center-Fire Maynard from the 1880's? Only differences are the reduction to 0.224" vs the original 0.226"-0.228" bullet diameter of the XLCF (the VD's vary all over the lot); and the thicker web to accept a Small Pistol/Rifle primer pocket (the first XLCF's were of folded-head construction and took 10 grs. BP; they were soon replaced by "balloon-head" construction and capacity dropped to 8 grs. BP. The curent design should run a bit less yet. I am building up a "parts" Stevens #44 for the original, but with a barel relined to 0.224". And, of course, I'll stick with BP, Triple-7 or light loads of Bullseye/Unique. How recently have you been able to get cases from Cooper. I got 100 about three years ago, and they were just about out then - in fact, mine are stamped ".17 CCM", but as yet un-necked down. Makes a neat reloadable .22 Magnum! floodgate

floodgate,

The brass is new stuff from Schroeder, he makes it from 22 hornet. I have a bunch of info posted on this thread about where to get all the pieces/parts > http://www.nookhill.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=35;t=002400 . Schroeder had mentioned some of the info you have listed above. I am interested in a subsonic load for "quiet fun". I am leaning toward a 14" barrel for this round, probably need a lil more barrel to get it really quiet but the majority of the usage this round will see is varminting and small game, so the 14 makes more sense. I am really looking forward to load development with it once i get a barrel.