bfrshooter -
You're dealing with a sensitive subject - pride. Tough to deal with at that age.

Grumble -
Agree with you about:

Why, when we were teenagers, we and all our friends were polite and respectful, weren't we? We NEVER did anything our parents or teachers would disapprove of. And of course, our parents, grandparents, and teachers never, but never, were in the least disappointed in us. And when our kids were teens, they too were nigh on to perfect.

Well, maybe not perfect. I guess I did meet three chiefs of police when I was in high school (all from my same home-town too).

Lots of energy - just takes channeling it. As a former Professor - I want the smartass in my class - to generate the engergy in the discussions; makes it easy to teach and involve everyone in the learning process.

BFR,

Boy you must be old if you've forgotten what it was like to be 16! If I read your post correctly, it was his idea to go shooting with you so you're obviously doing something right so don't give up now. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but he wasn't being unsafe, he was just arguing with you? If so you should evaluate if that is a good reason not to see if you can develop a closer friendship with him with shooting in common. Just realize that it's going to cost you a bunch of bullets, and if he flinches oh well he needs to figure it out himself and right now isn't at a stage where he can process what you are telling him. Just remember to be patient and also the reason why you are doing this, which should be because you love your grandson and want to build a relationship with him. I know it is easier said than done sometimes but that's life and you're the role model here!

I don't intend this to sound like criticism, you are doing a great thing spending time with him, but it sounds like you are a little frustrated with how it is turning out and are giving up because you don't know which way to go from here.

Of course, now the question is where do you go from here....

You might want to consider calling him up and saying your sorry that both of you got crabby towards the end and offer to take him shooting again. I'd even suggest promising him that as long as he is safe about it you won't give him advice on how to shoot unless he asks you. Of course, doing it this way might take 2 trips before he starts asking you how to do something, but even if it takes 10 outings to the range look what you will be gaining from the time you've spent!

Well if I haven't thoroughly pissed you off I'll make one more try here:


We two are like oil and water.

Ya know, the qualities that piss us off most in someone else are usually things that we have too! After all, he is your grandson! So maybe he doesn't want you to give up on him just yet, but doesn't know how to tell you and even if he did he'd die before telling you.

Good luck and patience, you'll need it! <G>

Regards,

Mark

Guys, I have to explain a little bit. My grandson lives with us because his mother took off to live with someone else in another state. She divorced his father who is married and living in Florida. He is bi-polar. He is angry and takes a lot out on us no matter how much we love him and what we do for him. All he wants to do is play video games. I have taken him aside many times to try and teach him things. He stares right through me or looks somewhere else showing no interest. I can do anything and everything from building a house, pouring concrete, laying block or brick, plumbing, electrical, you name it. I was an auto mechanic, tv repairman and am still a gunsmith. I can fix or make darn near anything from my boolit molds to furniture. I worked for United Air Lines for 42 yrs. I have not found a single thing he will learn so any knowledge I have is lost on him. I forget more in a week then he has learned in 16 years. When he gets a new teacher in school he decides in 10 seconds that he doesn't like him or her and will not do any school work for them. He doesn't listen to us when he is told to do something or go to bed. I actually had to put a switch in the basement to shut off his tv or he stays up until 3 am. He is always tired in school and gets into trouble a lot. He had to be homebound for 2 years with a teacher coming here. And to make matters worse, he is extremely intelligent and says he won't do school work he already knows or turn in required papers.
My wife and I do all the yard work on 2 acres of lawn with a lot of trees. I do all the firewood cutting, hauling and stacking. I also spend the winter bringing the wood to the house for the stove. I do all the repairs to the house like new roof shingles, painting, etc.
He will not ever offer to help and if my wife browbeats him into coming out, he is only good for 10 minutes work and he wants to leave.
No guys he is not like we were at all. Even with all the trouble we got in as kids, we had respect for elders and teachers. If we messed around in school we got our butts tanned good with a fat paddle and again when we got home. We did our school work and spent every second of every day learning, whether it was math, english or building go carts. We fixed our own bikes and cars. We helped our fathers when asked. We were always building something for fun and we listened to instruction when given or looked it up in books.
This kid is so lazy that he brought me a fancy stick made in Japan that had a piece cracked out of it. I handed him a bottle of glue and a band to wrap it with, telling him how to fix it. He said the heck with it.
Now if any of you fellas have a special funnel to put in his ear when he is sleeping that I can pour brains through, I will buy it. No, he is not like us, we were the generation! Now what do you think he says to me when I tell him he is flinching? And worse, what do you think his tone of voice is. Can you understand the oil-water analogy now?

I thinkith u r b ing unloaded upon. Ahh stay and give your grandson a little time and space and hope and pray he sees the light as well as you now do. roger

ah hell, ain't nothin a good willow stick won't cure, administer it often and give it abundantly. Bi-polar...when I was 16 (and in the following 30 years) I was and remain mono-polar..got one thing on my mind most of the time and (time) hasn't changed that one bit....HAR!

Now, if he has some kind of mental disorder, you might be the one we need to consul on handing him a loaded rifle..geezus!

Next time he starts one of his harangues, instead of thinking "oh, the poor boy......." just walk off and pay him no mind. Don't set a plate at the table for him or dole out any shillings or let him have what he takes for granted. No food, no money, no privledges. You'll get his attention real quick. When he whines, just tell him an ignorant old f*ck like you doesn't understand what he's talking about and walk off again. When his guts go to growling and there ain't nothing in his pockets to play with except his self and he's walking wherever he has to go and the TV doesn't work any longer....maybe he'll begin to understand YOUR languge. And if he hauls ass....him go. He'll be back. And if he ain't, it may be good for the local Andy and Barney to pick him up and let him try out a jail cell for a night or three. Guarantee his attitude will do a 180.

Don't give up on him. Take him out agIN NEXT WEEKEND. cHALLENGE HIM TO A SHOOTING MATCH. LET HIM USE HIS ALL -KNOWING WAYS.

And then make sure you beat him fairly, squarely, and soundly. Then gloat just a little, and tell him if he ever becomes interested in REALLY learning how to shoot, to come ask you.

I have found this works pretty well with pups.

And they are kind of like training a dog. You have to make them think they are doing what THEY want to do. It's kind of like if you want to get a mule in a corral. You don't open the gate all the way, and chase them. You open the gate about as wide as thier nose, and ignore them. They'll push thier way into where they think you don't want them eventually. Also, keep in mind, thier brains don't get any substance until they are past 20, and it is around 25 before they show any real glimmer of intelligence.

I think boys still come in only one model, the same as all the previous generations. My grandfather, born 1872, and his friends once disassembled a wagon (the horse drawn kind) and reassembled it on the roof of the high school. As you might expect of a hellion like that, Grandaddy never amounted to much. He was mayor of his town, offered a chance to run for Congress, founder, editor, publisher, and great writer for the leading local newspaper. Later on, after the banks were all shut down (1933?) he founded a new bank because his reputation could attract people to trust him with their money.
I have had a rather strained relationship with my stepson, yet we can get along well shooting and both of us have fun. What works for me is to NOT compete. I spend most of our range time coaching, explaining the why of things in great detail, and above all being patient. I only shoot enough to show him what is possible for somebody who works at shooting to do. With this encouragement he is well on he way to becoming a good shot, and it makes things go better at home. HTH curmudgeon