I am starting to acquire stuff for casting bullets. I will be using caste for the 357 Mag, 30-06, and 35 Whelen. After reading various articles, including Lyman Caste Bullet Handbook, I suspect that an alloy with a BHN hardness of about 12 would perform well on large and small game without excessive leading at velocities at, or below 2000 fps, using a gas check.

I am leaning toward the heavier caste bullets, 175 for .357, 190 for 30-06, and 250 for 35 Whelen, using a flat point design. Expected range is 200 yds and under, preferably closer.

It seems that Lyman #2 would be harder than needed, and anything less than a 9/1 mix of lead and tin would be too soft.

Am I thinking straight on this? Is there anything I am missing?

I have not purchased a melting pot, molds, or metals for casting yet, so I am pretty much a clean slate for suggestions.

Mike, I have been casting since 1980, and I will readily tell you that anything above 2% is just a waste of very expensive tin. All tin really does is help metal flow so the bullet metal fills the mould properly. It has VERY little to do with hardness.

One has to remember that the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and all their moulds were first put out when tin was a very cheap metal. That is not so nowadays.

Commercial Hardball alloy is typically 92-6-2: that means 92% lead, 6% antimony, and 2% tin. That particular alloy is typically too hard for handgun and works best in rifles.

My recommendation to you would be to buy about 50# of linotype and about twice that much wheel weight alloy if you can still find it. (There are probably some foundries out there that are still producing it, although it will be pricey; wheel weights made of lead are now outlawed in the US; another VERY stupid decision driven by the bunny huggers, but never mind that...)

I would recommend also that you use an alloy of roughly 7# of wheel weight metal to 1 # of linotype for handguns. It will cast like a dream, fill the moulds beautifully, and will not cost like gold. It also will not be too hard, which is again the chief curse of using hardball alloy in handguns.

I would use pure linotype for rifle bullets, and use gas checked moulds. The gas checks will ensure leading is kept to a minimum, and the lino will ensure perfect projectiles once you get the technique down, and they are capable of being run at almost jacketed velocities if you use gas checks. If you decide to hunt with the cast bullets, you can soften them up some, but be aware that it MAY affect the way the bullets fill the moulds, because the less tin you have the more chance there is of incomplete mould fill, if that makes sense. You really need to stay above 2%, and rifle bullets are much more demanding than handgun bullets when you are talking about accuracy. Any variation in mould fill equates to variation in bullet weight, and that affects accuracy.

Gas checks are a useless waste of money in handgun bullets, in my estimation. The right alloy, proper sizing, and the correct lubrication will almost guarantee virtually no leading.

For moulds, might I respectfully suggest you find a Lyman 358429 in four cavity for your 357; that is a 173-grain (nominal) mould in a SWC configuration, and is supposedly a faithful Keith design. Lyman still makes that mould if I recall correctly, and it is a dandy. A four cavity mould will pour more projectiles in an hour than you can load in that amount of time, generally speaking.

For the '06 I would find a Lyman 311284, and for the Whelen probably the SAECO #258 (I believe that is correct). Both are GC moulds, and they are proven performers in the calibers you mention.

You will need a sizer: I would size both the Whelen and the .357 projectiles to .358", and the '06 bullets to .309". A Lyman 45 would be my recommendation, off ebay. They are long since discontinued, but as good as it gets for the money, and Lyman and SAECO offer the sizer dies and top punches you will need; Lyman the dies and top punch for their two moulds, SAECO for the other.

Finally, learn to ladle pour your rifle bullets. Weight variation will be kept to a minimum that way, and you will quickly learn to pour bullets that, if cast from lino, are literally too pretty to shoot. Handgun bullets you can pour from an old Lyman #61 or similar, found reasonably often on ebay. The ladle pot should probably be a Lyman pot without a spout, if you want my honest opinion. It is probably the best buy for the money.

If I can help you, feel free to PM me. I am disabled fighting cancer, so I am usually not far from the computer unless I am in Houston getting an infusion...

Have a great time; just know that casting can become an obsessive hobby, in my estimation.

I've been casting perhaps a bit longer than that.

I've probably shot a couple tons of old WW. I have access to a foundry that makes 97% lead, 3% antimony alloy for a company that swages pistol and sabot ML bullets. I add 2% tin and it makes great GC alloy for most any rifle under 2200fps.

The latest advance is the powdercoating process. You might go to the cast bullets forum and read up on it.

Roto-Metals is a great company, albeit a bit pricey, to buy consistent alloys from.

My Schuetzen rifles use a 20:1 alloy, as do my Black Powder Silhouette rifles.

Doubles and Idaho... Thank you for the tremendous guidance!

I forgot to include the .22 Hornet in the list of guns I want to cast bullets for. The Hornet, and the Whelen are going to be the primary hunting guns with caste bullets, while the 357 and the 30-06 will be used primarily for target shooting. I may take the .357 out for groundhogs, along with the Hornet.

The .35 Whelen would be used for white tail deer hunting. I shot a button buck with the Whelen this year, using a Sierra 225gr Gameking... and it felt almost obscene the way it killed. I believe a good caste bullet would be a better match for a whitetail, sufficient for an ethical kill if I can get an alloy that will mushroom at about 2000 fps.

While I am planning to enjoy some cost savings with casting bullets, I probably won't shoot that many to make a huge difference.... it's mostly something that I want to learn, with the intent of becoming more versatile, and less dependent upon factory jacketed bullets. I like having options, especially when supplies are limited.

After reading up on the options I have for melting pots, I agree that using the Lyman dipping ladle would best suit my needs. That said, would the 10 lb casting furnace be enough, or should I go for the 20 lb model? I am not certain if I want to go with Lyman or Lee.

Molds present the same confusion for me... Lee vs Lyman molds... which work best for casting?

I have one set of mold handles... there are no brand markings on it, but I believe it is an older set of Ideal or Lyman handles... they have a .490 ball single cavity mold on them. Not really sure what will fit them. Again, if I must buy more handles, I will... but if it's not needed...

Bullet designs that seem to fit my needs are as follows;
Lyman 225438 for the Hornet (44gr w/GC)
Lyman 311644 for the 30-06 (190gr w/GC)
Lyman 358429 for the .357 Mag
or
Lee C358-158-SWC with Gas Check
Saeco #352 245gr. FPGC for the 35 Whelen

For bullet sizing, I bought a Lee 358 sizing die from the "used" table for a fair price. It has the full bottle of Lee Alox Lube. The box had been opened, but never used. I like the Lee sizing dies, as I can use my reloading press to do the sizing.... provided it works well... I don't know, I never tried it.

For bullet lube, I was reading an old Belding and Mull Handbook (circa 1949) and noticed the cake cutter. Set the bullets in a pan, pour the melted lube into the pan till the lube covers the lube bands, and when cooled, push the cake cutter over the bullet to remove it from the cake. I can make my own cake cutters with old fired cases, by cutting the base off the shell with a tube cutter.

Again, I am way open to suggestions... even though I listed quite a few ideas I have gotten so far...

I was looking at Roto Metals for some time... they seem to be a reputable bunch, and they speak the language for bullet casting... I really don't have a good source for wheel weights yet.... but I will look around locally, there are still a few small foundries in the area.

I have more questions, but it's time to get off this damned computer, and get some rest...

Again, Thank you for sharing your experience with me.

Well, I have done it... I ordered a Lee Magnum Melter, a Lyman ladle, a Lee ingot mold, and a pound of Marvelux from Sinclair. Right, wrong, or indifferent... I had to make a move.

Some time soon, I will order some pure lead for casting round balls, and some Lyman # 2 alloy. That way, if I want to mix a slightly softer alloy, I just need to add some pure lead to the #2.

I want to get a Lee Case Expanding Die, find a good hardness tester, some .358 and .225 gas checks and perhaps a bullet mold for the .357 and the .22 Hornet to get started.

This will all take some time, as money permits.

I am planning to cut my teeth on casting round balls for the muzzleloader, since I already have the mold for that.

Mike_Elmer--I have never cast round balls and have often heard you need pure lead. I know of one guy that says bs to that wheel weights work fine. I don't know. I started casting almost 50 years ago and started with wheel weights. Many years later, I started casting .22 cal and was told many times for that small I needed tin to get fill out. I heard this false rumor enough that I bought some tin. Only difference whatsoever, that I noticed was less money in my wallet from buying the tin. Over those almost 50 years do you think my alloy was always the same? Hardness etc changed. Did I notice any difference? NONE.
I did shoot a spike buck with my .243 and cast bullets. Results dismal. Deer ran off not a drop of blood. I don't think this had anything to do with the alloy, it was a case of too small a caliber. So I stick with jacketed for hunting. I can't see using a large cal with a rainbow trajectory when I can use a flat shooting jacketed bullet.
Leading is more of size and lube. I have molds that are designed for gas checks and I have shot bullets from these molds without gas checks and I question the use of gas checks anymore. You mentioned a hardness tester. Will altering the hardness change accuracy? Will it change leading? My point is, this aint rocket science and no need to make it such.
The .22 centerfires I cast for were .222,.223 and 22-250. No experience with hornet. My .223 is a Win mod 70 and is very accurate with jacketed bullets. I tried several combinations of powder and never got it to shoot cast. My .222's and 22-250 were just the opposite, they shot most everything I put in em. The mold was the RCBS 22-055 SP. I shot it with and without the gas check and found no difference. I used this bullet for culling jackrabbits and shot a bunch of them.

Carpetman, Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope I find you are correct, that I am overthinking it. That would make the whole experience more enjoyable.

Regarding the use of lead in the 35 Whelen, I have yet to shoot a deer here in PA at more than 50-75 yards. Most of our hunting is in really thick undergrowth in woodland. To use a good caste 250 gr bullet at a 1800-2000 fps should work well, especially if it mushrooms on impact.

The .22 Hornet is a cartridge that I am hoping to load at velocities between the 22 long rifle, and the 22 mag, using caste bullets. For groundhogs in some of the more populated areas, it would fill a niche of low velocity, low noise levels, and less travel past the target, while still being able to reload. If it doesn't work out, that is fine... but if it does, I can use it.

Regardless, I believe I will use the gas check, to minimize lead fowling as much as possible.

I have a .223, and mine does not like reduced loads with jacketed bullets, so I just use the good old reliable loading of a 40 gr V-Max at 3600 fps... it just works great for shooting out to 250-300yds max. Any farms with groundhogs that facilitates longer shots, I take the 25-06.

I currently have caste bullet loads for my .357, and my .40 S&W. I bought the caste bullets and worked the loads up. They are very accurate, and fun to shoot for practice, but the alloy is very hard, and not good for hunting purposes.

Again, going with a softer alloy, with a gas check, would hopefully open up another option for hunting with the .357 on groundhogs. For deer, I would only use the Hornady XTP FP at 158 grs in the .357.

The order came from Sinclair today. Picked up about 15 lbs of wheel weights at the scrap yard... cost me about $10... Got my casting area set up, and plugged the pot in... it warmed up real nice... didn't melt anything yet... and did order some soft lead and Lyman #2 from Rotometals. It should be here in within the week. Maybe tomorrow I will try melting some of the wheel weights, and pouring them into the ingot mold for later use.

Also, found an old Lyman Cast Handbook from 1974. It said that wheel weights are about 90% lead, 1% tin, and 9% antimony. Interesting stuff.

quote:

Also, found an old Lyman Cast Handbook from 1974. It said that wheel weights are about 90% lead, 1% tin, and 9% antimony. Interesting stuff.

Mike, they probably were, back in the '70s. Problem is, those ww were re-cycled and re-melted to the point that in a lot of instances, the tin was burned out of them, and they don't cast like they did back then.

Carpetman will probably tell you differently, but the last few years I found the only way to get ww to properly fill out a mould was to use about a lb. of linotype for every 7# of ww metal. It casts beautifully, and isn't too extravagant a use of linotype.

You have opened the door to probably the most addictive hobby I know of!

Doubless, no doubt I have started another addictive hobby!!

This evening, I heated up the pot, melted and fluxed the wheel weights, and poured approximately 9 lbs of ingots. It only took me about two hours. I was taking pretty slow and deliberate.

Everything went smoothly, although I probably heated the pot up a little too much, as the melt was getting a yellowish skim on the top when I started dipping from the pot.

I did find some wheel weights in the lot that were not lead... they did not melt... probably some type of lead free alloy or something... still, not a bad way to break in the new pot.

My ventilation fan worked very well.

I am looking forward to receiving the lead and Lyman #2 from Rotometals.

https://www.facebook.com/photo...1705.&type=3&theater


My first casting session, other than ingots.

I had to re-melt about 15 of them to get these. I believe I am finally getting the feel for it.

This was more of a test of my set-up, rather than a serious casting session. Still, I do have a few balls to try on the range when the weather warms up a little.

Mike, a couple of tips, especially casting pure lead:

1) run the lead hot. It won't hurt a thing...

2) smoke the inside of the mould cavity. You can hold the mould over the fire created when you are fluxing, or use a butane fire starter like they sell for camping. Just put a coat of soot over the mould cavity, and cast. The carbon helps the lead flow more evenly, since you don't have the benefit of tin.

Thank you, Doubless... I wish I had read your post before I started casting again today. Today I was staying on the "cool" side of the settings, and found that consistency decreased with the cooler setting. Next time, I will go hot. Since I don't have a thermometer, I am doing trial and error with the markings on the pot.

Even while learning, I am still having fun with it. Yesterday I coated the mold with some PB Blaster, and today I removed it with brake cleaner.

I noticed more dross operating the pot at this setting... I don't know why... I would have thought higher temps would cause more dross...

I will try smoking the mold next time.

That dross you are talking about is probably lead oxide. It happens when you are ladle pouring, and it will accumulate. I would flux the pot about every 20-25 pours; it drives the lead back into the free state, and you are good to go for a while longer!

Is the Orange/Yellowish residue on the side of the empty pot also lead oxide?

It may just be lead. Sometimes lead will change color when it is heated very hot. It does the same thing stainless does when tig welded, if that makes sense...

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
It may just be lead. Sometimes lead will change color when it is heated very hot. It does the same thing stainless does when tig welded, if that makes sense...

Very good, Thanks. The damned stuff is adhered to the side of the pot, and doesn't scrape off. It's not a hindrance, just an annoyance. Perhaps I am not using enough of the Marvelux when I am fluxing. Just more stuff to play around with.

By Wed, I should have the Lee double cavity mold C358-158-SWC in hand. I found a good buy on E-Bay, new in box... the cost, plus shipping was the same as list in the Lee Catalog, so it's worth a try... This stuff is fun!!

When you get ready to graduate to the "real" moulds, you might want to send me a PM. If you are a perfectionist, you will quickly find out Lee just doesn't cut it...

I have over 30 Hensley and Gibbs moulds, and it goes without saying that I don't use them all.

But they will spoil you...

My first .357 caste bullets using Lyman #2 alloy, Lee C358-158-SWC mold, Lee sizing die, and Lee Lube Alox, Hornady gas checks, all weighed + or - .5 grains from 158 gr (before gas check and lube added).

It took me quite a few castings till I found the right temp setting, and then it came together.

Tomorrow, after the lube has dried, I will load a few for when the weather breaks.

I am pretty full of myself right now!!

Took the loaded bullets out to the range today, shooting 2 shot groups to determine which powder to start load development. Tried 3 different loadings of Blue Dot, Herco, and Lil Gun.

Blue Dot, and Herco performed the best, Lil Gun was just too much, causing excessive leading.

The following links to the targets were shot at 25 yds, off the bench.

This is the Herco... and this is the Blue Dot!

This stuff is just too much fun!! There will be more load development happening. I would like to try different lubes, and see how that affects performance.

What I have found is put a bullet through a deer's lungs and they die.

Some times we make things way to complicated

I cast straight WWs drop them into a bucket of cold water. They are hard up to 1500fps leading is not a problem.

They kill well deer hogs and a few bears all have died.

My 460gr 45-70 load at 1450fps has no trouble killig things at all amongst many others I have used.

The smallest being a 40gr 224 at 1100 fps out of a hornet shot deer, deer ran 50 feet dropped dead. Why because I could.

P Dog, Bullet placement is a huge part of a clean kill... no doubt.

Still, I do like having that mushroom/transfer of energy to shock their system, in addition to the tissue damage directly caused by the projectile.

My guess is that Lyman #2 alloy should be hard enough to minimize leading using a gas check, while still being soft enough to mushroom a little on a lung shot. If I hit the heart, that is a nice bonus, but it's not always a guarantee.

I do have some WW ingots, and I bought some tin to mix with them, just in case they don't cast as well as they should.

But, first things first... I gotta see how well the caste bullets shoot with my guns. After I get some good groups, I can start shooting over the chrony, and determine if they have the punch I want.

https://www.facebook.com/photo...6295298&l=4ced7418e3 This is for the .22 Hornet. Using Lyman #2 alloy. They came out pretty nice, especially since this was the first use of the mold.

quote:

Still, I do like having that mushroom/transfer of energy to shock their system, in addition to the tissue damage directly caused by the projectile.

Mike,
The above sentence and cast bullets on big game doesn't compute. Cast bullet speeds and "shock" really don't go together. Cast bullets create holes, tissue damage, in vital organs, creating death by bleeding in all cases other that Central Nervous system direct hits. With your Whelen, putting that 250 FP or in my case a 280+ RN through the vital area will result in death without needing the bullet to expand. Usually the bits of bone and other tissue in front of the bullet when it hits the lungs generates a pretty good sized hole to quickly deflate them. With Cast for hunting, a good full caliber RN or good sized flat nose on a .358 bullet is a great killer. Focus on finding an alloy/bullet/lube that your Whelen shoots well at 1700-2000 fps and you will be very happy with the results.

Thanks Fury. As I am shooting, casting, and learning, it seems that I may be unwittingly trying to transfer my experience with jacketed bullets to the use of cast. I am working to develop a new mindset!!

Right now, I am working solely with the .357 Magnum, and finally getting some groups that are showing what I would consider good grouping for my pistol. I have not chronographed the loads yet, as I am focused on obtaining about 1" groups, 5 shots @ 25 yds, shooting off the bench.

I came very close this evening with one load using Herco powder, and another using Bullseye. What ever load works best, I will use on some groundhogs this summer, and see how they perform on a critter.

I was surprised by the amount of leading I was getting in my barrel. Loads I started with were probably hotter than they should have been due to the depth that I am seating, as I am trying to use the crimp groove on this bullet. OAL in the book says 1.580, I am seating at 1.540.

The loads I tested today were on the low end of the recommended powder charge, and sure enough, the leading was minimal. Both grouped 4 shots together within an inch, and both had one flyer that ruined the group. Still, I am making progress!!

These two links show the groups I mentioned in the previous post... I wish I had some better way to post them than Facebook. The "photo" option on this site doesn't play well with the Facebook site, I guess.

https://www.facebook.com/photo...6320298&l=66af03d3d6

https://www.facebook.com/photo...7790298&l=55f8572b12

I took the advice of a member here, and registered over at Castboolits web site last week. They have been very helpful and forthcoming regarding cast bullet problems and solutions. I have also been doing some casting and remelting, and casting again.... I melt my mistakes!! It is helping my technique. It is also revealing that my choices are dictated by the brand and type of my choices for all bullet casting tools and dies.

If I learned anything, it this: Just when I think I am overthinking it, I read something that makes me think I am not thinking about it enough!!

Hello Mike:

I'm a long time A/R member and cast bullet caster. I use the same bullet design as you for the .357. I use strictly salvage from the berms, or indoor range. I figure others have done the metal mixing already. When I cast, I use Lee 6 cav molds as I want production for my time & effort. Usually I cast the same bullet until I fill a two gallon bucket running over, then switch to another style. I used to shoot 300-500 .38's a night, three or four nights a week. I haven't gotten into shooting cast bullets in rifles yet.

I'm not an accuracy freak like many of these other guys are. With practice and good loads etc, I can and have beat everyone else in pistol match's.

What I was getting on here for was to ask you to weigh half dozen of your bullets as cast and let me know. Just because the mold is rated at 158gr, don't mean that's what they come out at. With my metal I get 169-170gr. With the sharper point SWC, I'm not sure the rated wt of that one right now. But, they come out at 147gr for me. That's the one I shoot most of in my .38's with 3.5-4gr Red Dot. I have K-38 that's so polished it don't even dirty the first patch anymore. I just wipe the outside of the gun off and it's good.

I've just had a 1917Enfield built for .358U/M and am using the 158 bullets for fire forming loads in it with 10gr Red Dot. My chronograph hasn't been working so I haven't gotten a velocity reading yet in this rifle. Right now I'm more intent on learning the rifle and getting lots of brass made up while practicing offhand which I've done very little. Dad always drummed it into me: "never shoot without a rest of some kind". Especially at game.

You can pm me if you prefer. Thanks much,
George

On your Leading issues, have your slugged the barrel and cylinder? Sizing your bullets to match barrel size +.001 or .002 is a good place to start. If the cylinder measures bigger than the bore size to the cylinders.
In your pic of the 357 bullets the Lee lube is a bit thin. It should cover to a light tan coating over the bullets surface. Not any heavier, don't want a brown coating.
This might help accuracy too.
Might try 2400 or Unique powders I have had very good results with both in my 44's and my 357.
Leo

quote:

Originally posted by 44magLeo:
On your Leading issues, have your slugged the barrel and cylinder? Sizing your bullets to match barrel size +.001 or .002 is a good place to start. If the cylinder measures bigger than the bore size to the cylinders.
In your pic of the 357 bullets the Lee lube is a bit thin. It should cover to a light tan coating over the bullets surface. Not any heavier, don't want a brown coating.
This might help accuracy too.
Might try 2400 or Unique powders I have had very good results with both in my 44's and my 357.
Leo

George and Leo, since I have last posted, I have learned a few more things about making, and using caste bullets.

I did check the diameter of the chambers in the cylinder, and found that .357 was the best fit... in that it was the largest size that would pass through them. Bullets sized to .358 did not fit.

I have also switched to using NRA Alox lube, and have found it to work with both my rifle and pistol loads. In the .22 Hornet, I get zero leading, and same with the .357 Mag.

The alloy I am using for both of these is a combination of wheel weights, and 10/1 alloy. This alloy supposedly comes close to the hardness of Electrotype, which is slightly softer than Lyman #2. Actually, the softer lead alloy has reduced leading.

Finally, I bought an other pound of 2400... (my last pound went to seed, and became lawn fertilizer), and have found it to work real well in both the .357, and the .22 Hornet.

I wish I had a range in my back yard, as it would facilitate testing greatly. I had one on my Dad's farm, but those days are long gone. Reloading from the bench at the gun club would not be practical with the set up I have. So.... it takes me forever to get my load development complete.

My methods for casting have improved also, and I am able to cull enough bullets that are within +/- .1 grs for good load development.

My bullet sizing, and use of gas checks has been a real learning experience. Different brands have different thicknesses of material, and it requires some matching to make them fit properly, and reliably. I am primarily using the Lee lube/sizer system before lubing. I then lube the bullets by dipping them in a pot of melted NRA Formula Alox, and running them through the sizer again, removing the excess lube, while packing it into the lube grooves.

I must be a masochist, but I am having some fun with this stuff. Now, if I could only retire so I have time to really dedicate to this stuff, I would truly be a happy man!!

Lyman#2 what an AMAZING alloy. Been said here that wheelweights might have changed. They never were exact. But you could use 90% wheelweights (unknowns) and add a little EXACT and come up with an EXACT. AMAZING. Need those exacts to make this more akin to rocket science.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Lyman#2 what an AMAZING alloy. Been said here that wheelweights might have changed. They never were exact. But you could use 90% wheelweights (unknowns) and add a little EXACT and come up with an EXACT. AMAZING. Need those exacts to make this more akin to rocket science.

Well, yes and no, I guess. I still don't have a means of testing hardness, so I am going by a Lyman chart, using percentages that are supposed to be close... and so it's still alchemy. That said, when I get a hardness tester, I should have some idea the accuracy of the Lyman chart, and how consistent the store bought alloys truly are. Then there are the questions, how often do you flux, how hot do you run your melt, what method do you use to pour into the mold, how does all this affect the alloy .... and on and on and on....

Mike_Elmer you get a precision lead hardness tester and you learn that what you thought was 14.3 BHN is actually 18.712 UT Oh Houston we have a problem. Those bullets are going to land on Mars not Jupiter. Being facetious. Seriously, what use is knowing the actual hardness going to do for you? What will it change? Can you now shoot deer that weigh over 171 pounds, but before they had to be under that weight? Will your groups shrink or expand? Will it change point of aim?

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Mike_Elmer you get a precision lead hardness tester and you learn that what you thought was 14.3 BHN is actually 18.712 UT Oh Houston we have a problem. Those bullets are going to land on Mars not Jupiter. Being facetious. Seriously, what use is knowing the actual hardness going to do for you? What will it change? Can you now shoot deer that weigh over 171 pounds, but before they had to be under that weight? Will your groups shrink or expand? Will it change point of aim?

Carpet, I simply wish to use the measure for ensuring consistency from batch to batch. I like the alloy I have... and I want to continue matching it. I may need to change the formula some, as WW become scarce, so there may be some other "mixtures" that will give me the same alloy, and hardness. Softer alloys seem to work better in my guns than the harder ones. I don't want all that load development to be wasted.

Mike, please carry on. There is a reason some of us have Carptetman on ignore...

Mike my point is, if there should be some change, other than the hardness tester giving a different reading, you'd never know it.

I'm on ignore but he reads my post? Sounds like a severe integrity issue.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Mike my point is, if there should be some change, other than the hardness tester giving a different reading, you'd never know it.

I'm on ignore but he reads my post? Sounds like a severe integrity issue.

Hardness testing should not be considered a panacea for poor casting, sizing, loading, etc.

It is possible that, after measuring hardness, I find that there is less variation than expected. If I were to find that the hardness is consistent, then I would not believe it to be a waste of money... confidence in my materials and practices is essential to enjoying boolit casting...

It would be lovely to buy the tester, use it a few times, and determine that I don't need it!!!

quote:

Originally posted by mike_elmer:

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Mike my point is, if there should be some change, other than the hardness tester giving a different reading, you'd never know it.

I'm on ignore but he reads my post? Sounds like a severe integrity issue.

Hardness testing should not be considered a panacea for poor casting, sizing, loading, etc.

It is possible that, after measuring hardness, I find that there is less variation than expected. If I were to find that the hardness is consistent, then I would not believe it to be a waste of money... confidence in my materials and practices is essential to enjoying boolit casting...

It would be lovely to buy the tester, use it a few times, and determine that I don't need it!!!

Mike, I have been casting since 1980, and although that is only 35 years, I have managed to get by without a hardness tester. I guess I have been lucky.

And fwiw, I don't know why Ray the carpet layer thinks I read his posts. It is simple enough to read what is quoted. If he is that smart regarding all things cast you would think he could figure THAT out, wouldn't you?

I just tired of his condescending, sarcastic posts. I suspect you will too.

Best of luck with what you are doing. If I can be of help, don't hesitate to PM me. I don't know it all by a long shot, but I know what I know. I may not be able to give you an explanation of all I have experienced in my short 35 years of playing with the silver stream, but I am never afraid to share what I have learned. And I think by now you know there will never be any belittling, sarcasm, etc. Life is too short...

Take care, guy, and if I can help, just holler.

I think he reads my posts because he numerous times responds to them, even when they have not been quoted. I certainly don't think he is that smart and very obviously has integrity issues.

Mike, if it aint broke don't fix it. If you are having problems, figure out what they are and fix them. Very doubtful it will be hardness.

Had a very interesting day at the range yesterday... some really promising results with the Garand, using caste... the Hornet has hit a plateau with improvement, I may have to push them a little faster... and the 35 Whelen didn't like what I tried to do at all... which is ok, because this is a process of elimination when developing loads.

Carpetman, I certainly can continue with load development, without a hardness tester.

That said, I received a few 5 lb ingots from Rotometals recently, and one of the ingots was not stamped with type of alloy. This is a first, and based upon my order, it should be Lyman #2, but I am not sure. It sure would be nice to have the tester for just such an occasion.

I had a bunch of old bullets that I melted the lead from, and now have a few pounds of bullet lead in ingot form. Again, no idea of it's hardness, other than some research info claiming that bullet lead usually has a composition of lead, with 2-5% antimony. A hardness tester would help me determine how much tin to add for what I want.