Forgive me if I'm off course here but isn't the Herrett a higher pressure round, even if it is made from the 30-30 brass? I knew one guy that had one and when he shot it,you could tell it had some power behind it. Might be why, along with what Felix mentioned, the brass doesn't last long. I know the Contender guys learned fast to headspace off the shoulders rather then the rims on the rimmed cartridges. I'm trying to think of another comparision but none come to mine, but I'd look at the pressure max for the Herret compared to the 30-30. Correct me if I'm all wrong here.

Joe

So I'm a thumb'n thru the RCBS Cast Manual #1 this morn doing the usual throne routine-- looking the 30 Herrett data over. I always thought this might be an interastin' caliber to develope in a cast rifle. Anyways I get to pg 127 and note the data supplied for the 180 gr and 2400. I looked at the data for the 150 gr and it's 4 grs LESS. So I compare the 30/30 data and the 180's with 2400 are 4 grs LESS. Mmm... Considering the 30 Herrett is a shortened version of said 30/30 methinks someone missed in proof reading??

I called another data supplier once with what's definitely a shotgun overload. The techie pleaded some nonsense... I asked him to relate my message to his superior. Sure enough... they reprinted the same loading again....

Aladin,

I have owned a 30 Herrett on the FBW singleshot rifle. I used it in the Coors Scheutzenfest days back there in the 80s.

My version had a full 30/30 neck length, I called it the 30 Herrett LN, for "Long Neck" and it sure was a fine shooting combination what with the special Matco cast bullet barrel and nice sights.

My favorite fast load was 24 grains WW748 or AA2460 and the NEI 308-178-GC at 185 grains. For Scheutzen I loaded a plainbase 178 gr nose-pour Hoch bullet over 18 grains 748. Best finish in 1986 was 10th over all.

The 30 Herrett is a fine small-bore cast bullet cartridge, overlooked by many today.

After Coors quit the scheutzenfest game and I had kids the rifle was moth-balled for years. Then I rebarreled it for 44/63 and went Buffalo Rifle shooting.

Good afternoon,
Forrest

30-30 cases and the typical guns, taken together, are the culprit for destroyed cartridge cases. Lots of these Herret caliber guns were break open types which made the case cracking problem even worse. However, the case capacity of the 30 Herret is ideal for the 308 cast bore, and when loaded to the hilt, which includes great accuracy by the way, kicks just about equal to a 44 mag in the same gun, rifle or pistol. Nonetheless, the cases were about worthless after 5 reloads or so. The cases should last considerably longer in a strong lockup gun. That said, I'd still go for the 30BR, which is about the same powder capacity, to get a more tolerant case. ... felix

Felix, I agree. My friend had the herret and just making cases he lost a lot. They did not last long at all.

Aladin,
I just looked in my T/C reloading book and it shows 14-17.5 grs of 2400 for a Lyman 311467 and 14.4-18 grs for a Lyman 311291. It shows the same loads as in the RCBS cast book. It wouldn't be the first time a load that was dangerous was posted. No other reloading book I have shows a 2400 load over 18 grs in the 30 Herrett round.

Any of you .30 Herrett guys use .375 Win or .225 Win brass instead of 30-30 brass? I developed a wildcat based on the .30-30 IMP and used .225 Win brass. I wanted something that would use a standard .30-06 boltface and the .225 didn't require turning rims or opening the bolt. My cartridge is basically a .30-30 IMP shortened to 1-5/8". I just ran the reamer in short. I have to turn the case necks and I went with a "fitted neck" so I don't even have to size the brass for reloading. The case life seems very good and I'm still using the original 20 pieces of brass that I made a few years ago.

I punched some numbers into quickload. Assuming a .4" seating depth and Lyman 311047 180gn gc it shows a max of 16.2gns 2400 for 39kpsi. A bullet seated out farther would make some difference. With a seating deapth of .2" then 17.6gns shows 39.8kpsi.
FWIW

Wren,

Yes, I used 375 Winchester brass for a box in my 30 Herrett LN.

It was a lousy run of brass or perhaps 375 Winchester isn't generally made as well as 30/30. The cases were a bit heavier, sure, but thier wall thickness varied wildly.

All 30 Herrett LN brass had to have turned necks in my target rifle's chamber and when I did this operation to 375 brass it was like doing a interrupted cut!

Good morning,
Forrest

Felix,

I liked the 30 Herrett LN so well for shooting cast bullets that had my M70 Winchester bolt gun barreled up to shoot it.

I had to turn the case rims slightly to fit the M70 but after that the rifle worked first-rate as a single-load outfit. I placed a piece of wood in the magazine opening and used it for some years that way.

The loads were the same as the FBW liked, that is things like 24 grains WW748 or AA2460 or Ball-C with the NEI 308-178-GC all shot very well with velocities running about 2000 ft/sec.

My insight is that if the 30/30 basic case is supported well, as in my songleshot or bolt gun, it handles the pressure just fine.

Good morning,
Forrest

FAmus

I believe it was Ross Seyfred that commented on brass. He likes to hot rod the 45 long colt. He said he was tired of hearing the brass was weak. He said just as you stated, it isn't the brass, it's how well it's supported. He said in a tight, and close tolerant cylinder, its as good as any. I know that there are differences in thickness between different calibers of brass, but some people think that there is an alloy difference too. I just can't see a manufacturer having a bunch of different alloys for cartridge brass. I'm not talking about the different alloys between manufacturers, but just with one that makes various calibers.
Joe

If the brass cannot move, as in BR chambers, pistol or rifle, then the "brass" is not weak, even with an "inferior" mixture of copper and zinc, or maybe even some tin. If you have an enlarged chamber, mainly like some auto guns for feeding purposes, then we have a problem. The brass mills, Olin and PMC mainly, make brass according to buyers specs. They may also make the cases for the buyer. I know that Federal has specified thicker material over the years for guns what they consider to have potential for enlarged chambers, like 308W, 45LC. The 30-30s have been loaded lightly for years, and more than likely the Federal brass for that is not hopped up. Also, I have noticed that if Federal is going to load a hot version of a standard version, they will order a thicker brass for that lot of loads. I know this, because I had several hours worth of conversation with Federal's head production engineer in Houston at a manufacturing convention. It's truth! No reason to boost sales at such a meeting. ... felix

Felix
My brother is a hunter not a shooter so he gives me his empty brass. Mainly 270 and 243. Alot of the 270 is Federal. I know it's once fired because like I said he doesn't reload. Okay...I've turned alot of this 270 brass into 7.65 Argentine and 7.7 Jap for cast shooting. I say cast because that usually designates low pressure loads, but not always for everyone. Anyways I have primer literally falling out of the pockets on the Federal brass only. I could understand this if I were loading condoms to the max, but I'm not. I mentioned this before on the old board and a poster replied that Federal only makes their brass to specifications to be shot only once and that is when you fire their factory ammo in your gun. I don't believe that. I also know a group of shooters that thing Federal is among the best brass out of the U.S. brands. I don't know what to think of their rifle brass now. By the way this is with more then just one lot number. On the other end I have Federal pistol brass that has lasted an exceptional number of reloads and still going, no neck cracks, no loose primer pockets. What's your comment on all this Felix?

Joe

Joe, each lot of brass is completely different, is the way you HAVE to look at it, to keep your sanity. It is NOT brand/headstamp oriented, even though it seems thataway on more than one occassion. Yes, it could be that the primer holes were punched on the large side with intentions, but whose? Chances are the punches were just too fresh (too big) at the time of the run, but, then, that's where the production management comes in and not necessairly the front (sales) office. Federal probably does not have a sales agenda for excessive brass, and saves that extra brass for a following up run the next year. Thus, it seems a bad lot gets propagated, giving a bad reloader sentiment over time. The way to really find out is to pick up range brass every year. It just could be, by chance, that this year's federal brass is very good in terms of primer hole tolerance, and remington brass has cracked necks all of the time. So, to answer your question for real, it can't be done. ... felix

Joe, I forgot to mention that Federal, for differention/competitive reasons, i.e., premium lines, like, or used to like, to have their cases "silver" coated/plated. That attribute would require a larger primer punch to compensate for the coating. But, as sales from previous years in those lines have faltered, decisions are made not to coat a current run of the same. Keep that in the back of your mind for brass (of any brand) that appeas to be on the soft side with large primer pockets. The only time you are guaranteed a good reloader brass is to buy it from a sales organization having that market in mind, like typically Norma, RWS, BlackHills, Starline, and others unknown. Sometimes, reloader brass is just to thick in the neck for tight chambers. That has to be watched like some of these "overload" brass runs from and for the majors. ... felix