my dad cast some bullets for his thompson center omega muzzleloader with some lee molds. he thought that he would be able to shoot them without sizing them. turns out he was wrong. he can't hardly drive them down the barrel. i have a star sizer that should be no problem to size them for him what size should they be sized to? the muzzle loader is a 50 cal. thanks for the help.

What alloy did he cast them out of? With pure lead or even 20-1 alloy such bullets, once started into the rifling with a short starter will easily slide the rest of the way down the barrel with the ramrod. Also, is the barrel clean? There can be leading and or palstic residue in the bore that can cause hard seating.

Larry Gibson

When I had my 50 caliber muzzle loader I tried Lee's improved Minie. That's the one with a larger flat on the nose and of course being a Minie style it had the hollow base. I couldn't drive them down my barrel either. I have a special extra heavy duty ramrod for bench use and couldn't get them down with it either. So I made a sizer and sized them. They went down easier, but the accuracy wasn't as good as I got with the original good ole TC Maxi Ball. I still think that is the best bullet to shoot if you're not going to use jacketed bullets in sabots. By the way it didn't make any difference my Lee bullets were pure lead.

SmokinJ

That's what the "short starter" is for. It starts the ball/bullet into the muzzle. Mine has a large wood knob on it so I can wack it with the plam of my hand. Commercial ones have a smaller knob but the work ok. Mine also has a real short starter that gets the bullet in 1 bearing length and another rod on it that is 4" long to drive the bullet in. From then the ramrod easily seats the bullets.

Once the bullet is in the barrel one bearing length it is "sized". You can do it at home or you can do it in the field with the short sarter, makes no difference to the rifle.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
SmokinJ

That's what the "short starter" is for. It starts the ball/bullet into the muzzle. Mine has a large wood knob on it so I can wack it with the plam of my hand. Commercial ones have a smaller knob but the work ok. Mine also has a real short starter that gets the bullet in 1 bearing length and another rod on it that is 4" long to drive the bullet in. From then the ramrod easily seats the bullets.

Once the bullet is in the barrel one bearing length it is "sized". You can do it at home or you can do it in the field with the short sarter, makes no difference to the rifle.

Larry Gibson

No Larry the bullet flat out won't push down the bore easy unless they are sized down. That range ramrod I mentions was made from a shotgun cleaning rod, the sectioned aluminum ones that are fatter then 3/8th inch. The T handle was a translucent yellow handle (like on screw drivers) but it was heavier and fatter. For a bullet starter I used just the first section the T handle was on. I had a TC Blackdiamond and it, as you know, had the quick start muzzle. I had to pound the bullet down. I sold that mould to Maven.

I know all about muzzle loaders and the tools for them and I've been shooting them from before 1970. I'm down to just one BP firearm now and that is my Ruger Old Army.

SmokinJ

Obviously you know everything there is about muzzle loaders........as you know everything about everything........

However, you apparently aren't aware of the difference between a range rod (doesn't matter what it's made of....mine's out of a shotgun rod also) or a regular rod used for pushing the bullet/ball down to the powder and short starter. They are two seperate tools for two seperate jobs. The first section of the shotgun rod is still too long and is not the same as a short starter.

You are correct in that ; "bullet flat out won't push down the bore easy unless they are sized down". What you don't know and aren't listening to is that with the short starter and a pure lead bullet you can easily sizethe bullet in the muzzle. Once sized to the barrel it will slide down easily unless the barrel is fouled.

I've been using a short starter for 43+ years and they've been in use by MLers for hundreds of years. I can easily seat REALs and MaxiBalls that are several thousanths over in my TC Blk Mtn Magnum .50 cal. I also seat very tightly fitted patched balls in my .45 cal. Once started with the short starter the bullets and patched balls then seat normally with the ram rod.

I've used the short starter in several other MLs over the years also. I've never seen a traditional MLer who didn't have and use a short starter. Lots of "modern" MLers with inlines don't have or know about short starters because they generally aren't needed with saboted bullets and their use is not included in the minimal instructions that come with inlines. Read any old manual on MLing and you will find out about short starters. But then what do I and the entire MLing fraternity know.......you know it all and say they aren't necessary because you couldn't make the Blackdiamond work with a ram rod.........obviously you've never used a real short starter or you would know.....bet you come back with some lame excuse that you have used one in contradiction to your current BS here.......why don't you really try one before simply arguing with me simply because you like to argue with me about anything and everything?

kacole can size them for his dad but if not pure lead they may then not obturate and accuracy may be poor. In addition if sized to much his dad may then get severe leading because of the undersized bulletor the bullet may not stay seated during handling or hunting. If they are sized correctly for "easy" seating with the ram rod they may indeed work fine if cast of pure lead also. However, if cast out of pure lead and a short starter is used they will fit the barrel to begin with, they will obturate, accuracy will be good (all other things being done correctly) and they won't lead. Might even be that the bullets kacole's dad is using are grossly over sized and do need sizing. Doesn't matter as either way works. Just because you couldn't get one bullet in one MLer to not work doesn't mean no bullets work in any muzzle loader unless sized. Most bullets shot in MLers aren't sized, they are shot as cast and are started in the muzzle with short starters or the ram rod.

Larry Gibson

Geesh. Larry they flat out would not go down my TC barrel even when it was clean. I know about short starters and such. You're the one not listening or comprehended what you think you read. As for obturating..DUH!! Soft lead and a hollow base??????????

I had my best groups and success with the original TC Maxi Ball like I stated.

Like I said I sold the mould to Maven and he wasn't too enamored with it either stating that it became difficult to load.

Larry I don't care to argue with so I'm truly done here.

I got a short starter and felt inadequate, and like I had been cheated, Maybe I should be proud of it

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
I got a short starter and felt inadequate, and like I had been cheated, Maybe I should be proud of it

That's a good one....LOLs

Maybe Joe shouldn't try putting a .54 cal bullet down a .50 cal barrel

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
I got a short starter and felt inadequate, and like I had been cheated, Maybe I should be proud of it

That's a good one....LOLs

Maybe Joe shouldn't try putting a .54 cal bullet down a .50 cal barrel

Larry Gibson

Actually it was an over paper patched 36 caliber.