..ok, I screwed around and didn't check the archives in Shooter's...now I can't get logged on.... my question is.. what temp is considered correct for ww metal in rifle bullets? I cast some in my NEW BRASS MOLD BY MOUNTAIN MOLDS... (just had to throw that in... what a great guy to do business with!)........ the pot was at just about 800 deg... but I still had to cast pretty fast to get good consistency... bullets were frosted. Some of my earlier rejects were pretty nice looking.. shiny... except for a "hot spot" that frosted on each of them, down one side. As the mold got up to temp, the bullets started getting a little more evenly frosted. I weighed about 25 of them, and most were 242gr, +/- .4gr..... This is pretty consistent, for me... Any suggestions? Oh, this is a two cavity, .359 mold...... thanks in advance...

In my expereince yer plenty hot.
Dan told me the brass takes a while to season.
My molds from him are castin' real well at 700. Like Ya said this guy is real good to deal with.
Sounds like we bought the same mold I got a 242gr. that casts .3597 outa W.W.
What are Ya shootin' it outa?
Let me know how yer's shoots.

[ 02-13-2003, 10:53: Message edited by: DOUBLEJK ]

I have always found that frosty bullets shot very well! I know that this is a sign that things were "too hot" but (for me) frosty bullets have always been extremely well filled out, and I have never noticed any drawbacks.

I would appreciate hearing if there is a disadvantage of casting very hot that I don't know about.

jpb

hornetguy...I normally run WWs at 775 by thermometer and then vary casting tempo and drop distance below the pot to get good bullets. Also, I like mine a little frosty to give a good fill.

Think Dan's worked himself into a business and a backlog at the same time. His moulds sure sound good. After he gets up and running good, I have a couple of special orders that I want also. I've never tried brassies so I'll probably get the steel. Maybe NEI will be back on line by then also./beagle

aladin
I only ran one batch of that new mold so far and the readings on 10 ran from .3594" to .3597" (that was the worst one I measured)
Dan sure seems to hold tighter specs than some makers do.

Frosty is good. Frosty is consistent. Frosty fills out well. Frosty is God's way of letting you know instantly that you are hot enough to water drop directly from the mold for circa 18 Bhn hardness.

(See, He is a fellow cast bullet shooter, too, He gave us a built-in water drop temperature sensor effect called "frosty")

BTW, just what is the "frosty" phenomenon then? What causes it and how thick is it?

Answer, frosty is just a very shallow surface effect that takes place at the start of recrystalization of the antimony matrix in the lead alloy when the temperature is up and the jel time of the alloy is slow enough for the effect to take place.

Frosty is only a few tenths of a tenth of a thousandth thick (just on the surface), but I think the improved crystal maxtrix formation effects go all the way through the bullet at those temperatures. This is all tied into the water drop hardening effect directly, BTW.

Prove this to yourself by taking a Kleenex (the flimiest paper cloth known to man)and rubbing a frosted bullet. Frost rubs right off, doesn't it? Look at that Kleenex -- that is all that was removed to take off the "frosty".

See if you can even measure the difference between frosty and unfrosty with your very best micrometer. No difference, huh? I used things much better than a micrometer (a super-mike used for calibrating gages and a magnifying microscope vision system and I can't measure it either).

Frosty or not is "much to do about nothing" really ....

Frost them all up consistently, that way you do know you have both good fill and are at a good temperature for your water dropping.

Oldfeller

[ 02-13-2003, 19:54: Message edited by: Oldfeller ]

Many thanks, Oldfeller!

I feel much more confident now about cranking the lead pot thermostat up all the way to "frosty" now!

jpb

I've got two of Dan's brass molds for my 454. I've found that they take awhile to heat up. There is alot of mass in the blocks. I've been putting the mold on top of the pot when I turn it on. Now I'm getting good bullets on the second pour. I really like the accuracy so far, just under 2" at 50yds. I think my 357gn bullets might be on the verge of just being stable. I'm going to try some lighter ones, 300 or 320 next.
lar.

Hello HornetGuy-

I'll preface my 2 bits worth by stating I'm a ladle caster. I cast a wide variety of bullet calibers and designs with moulds from all the major and many of the custom manufacturers. I mostly cast WW + 2% Sn and use a thermometer to monitor alloy temp.

For me - I find that a melt temp in the range of +700F to +750F works best - individual mould venting making a decided difference within this range. Most moulds respond well to casting with an RCBS type dipper when the spout is in direct contact with the sprue plate, started with the mould cavity horizontal and rolled smoothly to vertical in about 1 seconds time. The spout is then lifted slightly and a puddle allowed to form. The exception are the LBT moulds with their unique sprue plate design. These want to be filled with the mould held at about a 45deg. angle and have the dipper pouring from about 1/2" away from the sprue hole in a steady stream (I prefer the extra capacity of the Rowell 1lb. ladle for filling these moulds.) Most of these are two cavity and so cavity one is filled, the ladle is moved without stopping the alloy stream to cavity 2, it is filled, and then the mould is brought to near horizontal to puddle in the sprue plate depression. All that takes place in about 3.5 - 4 seconds for a .44 cal mould.

I get much less dross formation on my alloy in the pot at the lower temperatures and don't experience frosting at all.

FWIW-

Sky C.
Longmont, CO

My 2 cents worth:
About half of my handgun loads use straight wheelweights, oven-treated, and I usually cast them borderline frosty to get good fill. Never seen a difference in accuracy or diameter between a frosty bullet and a shiny bullet. As for temperature, I just bought a lead thermometer for the first time in my 20 odds years of casting, tried it once or twice, it was always getting in the way or falling down, so I set it aside and haven't used it since.
I start out with the pot turned all the way up and keep it that way until the mold overheats and the sprues take forever to solidify. Then I either crank the temp down and/or dump the sprues and rejects back in the pot until there is just a touch of frost. When things are running smoothly there will be frost on the bottom of the bullet and a little around the edges of the bands. Any more heat slows things down and smears lead on the sprue plate and any less doesn't fill out as well.
While I appreciate the nice things you guys have been saying about my molds the truth is there is a lot of room for improvement. The brass molds in particular have more diameter variation than I care for. I am experimenting with different boring techniques but so far that brass is outsmarting me.
MTN

..hello, all.... sorry I've been so long on the reply end of my post.. had to go out of town for a week, had a death in the family.
Thanks for all the replies... oldfeller, good info on the "frosty" thing.
doublejk... I'm going to shoot this out of a .35 Whelen. It's an Argentine mauser with an Adams and Bennet barrel that will shoot about 1.5" groups with jacketed 225gr gamekings. I want to try the cast bullets for possible hog use...
mtn.. Dan? good to hear from you. Do you think that brass is not as good as the aluminum? ...or steel? This is my first brass mold, and so far I think it is going to be a winner.. as soon as I get my technique worked out.
thanks again for all the replies... good information from all of you...