The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Cast Bullets Pure lead alone any good?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I have lead that was used to make stain glass windows and such, I believe that it is pure 100% lead. Are there any 38, 357, 44 magnum loads that can be produced with this?  I have not yet started to make bullets but have now got the itch to do so. Do I need to add something to the mix? Thanks in advance. Vg | ||
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The lead by itself will cast decent bullets used at target velocities of 800 fps or so. If your using a GC mould then decent hunting loads up through 1100-1200 fps or so can be made. However if PB'd bullets then add 1 lb of tin to 16 lbs of the lead for a 1-16 alloy which will cast very decent magnum level bullets for the .357 and .44 up through magnum velocities of 1400+ fps. A 50/50 alloy of WWs +lead will also give a serviceable alloy for the PB magnumloads. Larry Gisbon | |||
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How about 1- 16 (Tin/Lead) and Gas checks? Can produce a good accurate hunting load? | |||
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Oh Yeah! Make sure to size them to your bore or, cylinder throats, and go for it. NRA Patron Life Member Benefactor Level | |||
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A 1-16 alloy will make very good 357/44 cast bullets at magnum velocities (1400+ fps) especially with GC'd cast bullets. Larry Gibson | |||
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A 1-16 tin/lead alloy is wonderful for casting, but it is a waste of very expensive tin. Commercial casters use 92/6/2 alloy, and that is lead/antimony/tin. Any alloy with 2% tin will flow like a dream, cast a beautifully filled out bullet, and should be fairly close to nominal mould diameter (within a thousandth or so...). | |||
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vinnyg--When I was contemplating getting into casting,I read the Lyman Manual. They gave exact formula for making their "witches brew". The brew consisted of about 95% wheelweights and EXACT amounts of other stuff. You take an unknown for 95 % and by adding 5% of exacts you come up with an EXACT? Amazing. Sounded to me someone was creating rocket science where it didnt exist. So take what you have and add some wheelweights and you'll be fine. You didnt state what you intended to use the bullets for. If hunting,for example--you really arent going to get the expansion you do from a jacketed bullet---so the key is use a large enough bore and expansion aint a factor. If for plinking--fit and proper lube will reduce leading and if you get some leading--a little brushing will remove it. Melt the stuff and make some bullets. | |||
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Soft lead is a PIA. Adding a little tin helps with flow but will not add to hardness enough to notice. Soft works best in a muzzle loader or big bore rifle with a slow, low pressure powder like black that spreads the pressure curve farther down the barrel. Examine what happens in a revolver; Everyone will use a fast powder so velocity is kept lower. That punches the boolit, upsets it, the nose will expand and shorten, grease grooves are damaged. Lube can leave too early. When it hits the forcing cone it is pretty much a blob and lead can even squirt out of the gap. Witness .38 specials shot with pure wad cutters, there is even lead on the outside of guns. Crimp will not open fully and the balance can scrape and size the boolit making it smaller. Then you depend on obturation to fill the throats and still might get gas leakage. The boolit can skid the rifling longer then it's length and widen land and groove marks to the base, those are sure paths for gas to cut the boolit and lead the bore. This is why a gas check was designed, the idea is to have the copper grab the rifling, keeping the land marks on the base bore size and close the gaps up the side of a boolit. It does not take much to exceed that and still get bad leading. Slow powders help but since they should never be downloaded, the cure will not be there since you will have to shoot with more velocity and pressure then the boolit can stand. Even 50-50 alloy, water dropped or heat treated can leave some crimp left on the brass. These can be super accurate however there will be a lot of fliers, expect 25% or more way out of the group. Using 50-50 will most likely not lead the bore though and it will be clean and shiny. These should still use a gas check or most shots will be fliers. PB 50-50 boolits make LARGE groups and CAN lead the bore. With soft lead, lube choice is 100% more critical. The ideal is to use very hard lead of at least 22 to 30 BHN, 30 will be more accurate. Fit the boolits very close to throat diameter. Then alter the nose shape for the usage, large meplat, hollow point or a softer nose from the crimp groove forward or a combination of all three. This will change according to the size of game and the velocity of the gun. One size does NOT fit all. If you stay under 1400 fps, only a large flat meplat is needed. Soft lead causes 99.9% more problems then I like to deal with. A jacketed bullet changes depending on velocity and game shot. Slow bullets can use a thin jacket and a pure lead core but as demands on it change, jackets get thicker and cores get harder. Nose changes are made to control expansion. Why does anyone think a soft boolit negates all of that? I suppose if one shoots 25 yards or less and is satisfied just with the bang, soft is OK and they do kill deer very well. | |||
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After many years of casting, I started casting .22 cal bulets. I was using wheelweights as I had done for years. Lots and lots of folks started telling me I needed to add tin to help with fillout to cast .22 cals. I bought tin and added it and I could tell no difference whatsoever. I have also shot a bunch of bullets from gas checked designed molds but with no gas check, and they seem to shoot as well too. In .22's I shoot cast in the 2000-22000 fps range and they work just fine with no gas check. I have shot lots of jackrabbits and this is out to whatever range I can get them spotlighted and with or without gas check they work fine. | |||
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That brings up an interesting thought Ray. Seems the larger the caliber the more effected the accuracy is shooting a cast bullet without a gas check...that is a gas check style bullet. I assume you're taking about shooting gas check bullets without a check on them..right? Joe | |||
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I have a bunch of nickels around here I shot with a 30-30 TC at 100 yd's using hard cast with a gas check. Leaving the check off sent every shot through paper sideways at 50 yd's. It is not something I suggest because it either works or is a disaster. | |||
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Carpetman This is in jest so don't get yer dander up.....you know they say that what goes around comes around? Well remember all those times you've corrected my mistakes at spelling? Well now ...."22000" fps ? that's pretty darned fast even with a GC let alone without one! On the serious side, you say your non-GC'd .22 cal cast bullets shoot "fine" at 2000 to 2200 (see I knew what you meant) fps. Could you describe "fine" for us as it relates to accuracy. Perhaps you could give us a conversion formula to conver "fine" (as in minute of spotlighted jackrabbit at 10-maybe however many yards) to perhaps moa for 5 shots at 100 yards? Perhaps also within the definition of "fine" you could provide a little more detail on the mould used, the load and the rifle? The last questions were not in jest but seriously asked. Larry Gibson | |||
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lead is great, IMHO, for alloying 50/50 with WW for most loads. If you want velocity go to a gas check or jacketed. The larger the bullet diameter the more speed you can get. That is due to lower pressure, not any magic. Anything over 1000fps at my house gets a gas check. Rich Buff Killer | |||
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Fine--minute of jackrabbit at to whatever range you can get a good enough spotlight on them to see them with a scope. I mostly used my 22-250 which is a Parker Hale with Shilen barrel. I did use a .222 Rem 600 and a .222 in a Savage combo gun. If I was dropping almost all of the jacks I shot at---didnt see the need to check it on paper. I don't have an Oehler chronie---who knows maybe some were 22,000 fps??? But for sure there aint no A in consistent. The mold is the RCBS .22 cal mold which is 58 grains. I used 12.0 4227 in .222 and about 14 grains 4227 in 22-250. Also used some loads with unique. Both the .222 and 22-250 would shoot pretty good with whatever I tried. My .223 will not shoot cast with anything I tried. The .223 is a Win mod 70 and shoots jacketed better than anything I have. | |||
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Carpetman That’s a great definition for "fine" as you use it. That works for you and many others. Sometimes it works for me too. I know I am a stickler for accuracy but that is when accuracy is what we're looking for. I do send an awful lot of just "ok" (probably same as "fine" to you) cast bullets down range. I also shoot a lot of milsurp ammo and reloaded bullets which are not renowned for accuracy but do shoot "ok", to me anyways. I'm ever on the watch for that "a" in consistent. Got to admit I'm doing a lot better but it still slips through now and again  Larry Gibson | |||
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Larry Gibson--If it aint broke don't fix it. These bullets are killing jacks and that was the goal. Actually, it's been a few years since I shot jacks. The guy I was shooting them with had access to like 65 sections--that's right 65 square miles. He was using a Ruger 10-22 and knew little about guns,except how to shoot. He is a very deadly shot. The first night we went shooting, he was telling me how unreliable scopes are--cant hit anything with them. After a little discussion, I figured out the problem. After mounting a scope, he didnt have a clue about adjusting it. So I spottlighted a small rock and asked him to try my rifle. He was amazed. He asked me if I would help him set up a scope on his 10-22. As you know night shooting is easier with a scope as you only need the target lit---with open sights you need both the target and the sights lit. Next day we mounted a scope and he was very good with the rig. He took some jacks at ranges that sure impressed me. He was using a .22 rimfire and I was using the cast bullets in a centerfire--probably about 1000 fps more velocity and a heavier bullet---so I did have more range than he did . He could not believe the range I was hitting them at---like I said he knew nothing about rifles and that huge ballistic advantage I just mentioned. Well it works out plain and simple the guy was a big liar and I got tired of listening to his lies and even though he had a gold mine for varmint shooting, I didn't care to be around him,so I quit going. BTW the comment I made on the other board that got your dander up was just in jest. I think it was a gotcha and you'd have taken the same shot were it available. | |||
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Carpetman Like I said "fine" worked for you and similar results works for me. It ain't broke as far as I can see as I've shot lots of things including jacks with such "fine" accuracy loads. However, shooting "picket pins" (Columbian ground squirrels) might require a little work. When sitting up doing the "bhudda" they give you a target 1", maybe 1.5" wide and maybe 3.5" tall. Laying down feeding in alfalfa (if you can see all of them) may 1" tall by 4" wide. Considering we shoot them out to 200 yards accuracy is a bit more critical than "fine". BTW; in some states "spot lighting", even on jacks, is illegal and considered very non-sporting. I don't think that way but I wonder if swheeler is going to take exception to you now like he did me? As to; "the comment I made on the other board that got your dander up was just in jest" might well be better said on that other forum. If so I'll readily admit that you "got me". Right now over there it doesn't appear that way. I might have taken the shot as I did in my above post here but at least I said it was in jest so everyone would know. 45 2.1s comment and threat was way out of line. Larry Gibson | |||
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Larry Gibson---Spot lighting game animals is illegal here. But a jackrabbit is not a game animal. To me about like killing rats---they carry lots of parasites and diseases. Not really done as a sporting thing it's population control that happens to have a sporty atmosphere about it. You may be right---if I were shooting smaller targets, I might need greater accuracy---then again I may already have it??? If I were shooting bigger targets would make sense I need a bigger gun--just because these work on jackrabbits doesn't mean it would work on elk. | |||
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Starmetal--You posted my quote " I have also shot a bunch of bullets from gas checked designed molds,but with no gas check." -----I assume you're talking about shooting gas check bullets without a check on them right? I sure don't understand the need for an assumption???? | |||
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Carpetman You really need to get that burr out from under your saddle.....I was agreeing with you about spot lighting jacks. I don'e see a problem with it just like you don't. However some have a much different view which was my comment about swheeler. Would be nice to know actually how well those non- GC'd loads of yours did for accuracy on paper. I've killed quite a few jacks with 311410s out of M1 carbines that were none too accurate by some's standards but they worked fine at the time. I used to like to take my IPSC rig out shooting jacks and let them break and run before I would draw....was lots of fun. Larry Gibson Larry Gibson | |||
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larry Gibson---How do you come up with burr under saddle---I realize some states it is illegal--same as food plots for example. Was just pointing out it is legal here. I dont keep extensive records and I'm sure I checked em on paper--years ago---for sure would have when sighting in the scope. | |||
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this is good advice. the only thing id change is that i think the advice is a little on the hard side. An excellent mag level bullet can be made by mixing ww and lino 5050 at a hardness level of about 16-18 other then that hes spot on with his thoughts.
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Carpetman Okay perhaps I'm wrong, just seems you responses are "argumentative". Obviously they're not from your side of the conversation. I'll go with that and be more positive when I read your posts. Perhaps our past disagreements have tainted my outlook. My interest in what kind of accuracy you were getting is only academic so as to compare them with the same type loads I've found as "fine". I wasn't looking to criticizing them at all, just looking for another’s yardstick to measure my own by. As we agree, accuracy is good but sometimes "fine" is good too. Larry Gibson | |||
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Larry Gibson---Darn we agree on something---that we have disagreed a lot in the past. Now you have my fine shooting load down to "fine" which is good enough for some but not your high standards. Read my post again--I said about 100% kills. Now I'll admit that fast drawing on a running jack is pretty challenging to some---but it doesn't measure up to my requirements. Did I mention we do our shooting from off the back of a bucking bull? | |||
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Carpetman "bucking bull"? That's cowboy kids play. Out in the "real" West (we are west of you all in Texas after all) we do it from the back of a horse at full gallop, leaning off the side, shooting under the neck, with hoop lever rifles at 1000 yards across canyons. Did I mention bareback? Sometimes hard to see the jacks at 1000 yards but we got some off colored ones (Easter types) out here. Yeah I figured only you would be satisfied with 100% kills with that "fine" load. Hell, with my "fine" loads I get at least 125% if not 150% kills so, as usual, my "fine" loads are obviously more accurate than your "fine" loads  Larry Gibson | |||
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Yes you are at full gallop. Did I mention we are blindfolded? | |||
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we tend to do it larry's way a bit east of him but only are able to hunt the jackalopes that way the regular ones we have to parachute in on them and can only use 22 shorts at a minimum distance of 2500 yds [stupid game laws] we used to be able to shoot from the horse but the numbers were dwindling so they had to adjust. remind me to tell you aboput the shot fivey made from under her legs while landing sometime.:] | |||
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I like to fill the grease grooves with salt for my longer shots. How Long?? Well lets just say this aids in preserving the meat till I can get to it | |||
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Old saying; "first liar never stands a chance." Some validity to that obviously. "blindfolded"? Carpetman, that insinuates you are using rifles with sights of one form or another....for shame! Salt? You mean someone actually eats jack rabbits? Besides as my cast bullet loads are of such high velocity (they actually increase in velocity with the super secret cast bullet cartridge a friend developed - sort of rocket assisted) there ain't much left of a jack short of a mile.....must be why we never find any we've shot  Larry Gibson | |||
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Sights? We don't have time for sights. I mentioned this is from the back of a bucking bull and blindfolded. I musta left it out that we are standing at attention on the back of that bull with our right hand over our heart. We juggle two baby grand pianos and our rifle and as we catch twm we either shoot or play the next note on the piano before tossing them back in the air. We play yhe National Anthem is reason why we stand at attention. Larry you are right first liar doesn't stand a chance--thats the reason I didnt give you any numbers--I knew if I shot 1/16" groups at 500 yards yours would be 1/32" at 501 yards. Notice the range I gave was to whatever distance we could spotlight them? You came in with 200 yards you are shooting at. Did you measure a spotlight and find 199 yards to be their max? | |||
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Carpetman The 200 yards was just an example of a requirement for better accuracy than perhaps what "fine" was. If your loads were 4-5 moa, or whatever, at 100 yards and that was your definition of "fine" is all I was asking. I was not looking to argue or even discuss finer accuracy. I just wanted to know what you meant by "fine" so I could compare with my "fine". Like I said, I shot a lot of Jacks in eastern Oregon and northern Nevada with a M1 Carbine using a .311410HP that wasn't doing much better than 6 moa. That was "fine" for me at the time. I still shoot a lot of them with 3-4 moa ammo and that is still "fine". As to the range of the spotlight, we were using the old hand held one with the bulky square 6V battery below the handle. If I recall correctly we could get some eye shine out to 70-80 yards or so. We never actually measured it that I recall. Now I've a hand held 100 bajillion megawhat rechargeable one that would probably give 100+ yards shots but alas, it is illegal to use a spot light these days in my old hunting haunts. Larry Gibson | |||
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I would add tin @ 25-1 for easier casting & a bit of strngth to the lead. They will be good for 1000fps, 1300fps w/ a GC w/ min. leading. You can also cut clip on WW w/ it like Idaho sugg @ 50/50 for a good bullet upto 1200fps w/ no GC. Water drop them to make them a bit harder. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Super, I just got a hold of pure tin from a company that makes ac duct. they buy it by the pallet in sheet's and cut me up 30 lbs for free. So there's no exspensive cost here for me. Now how does antimony come into the picture here? Or will I not need any? | |||
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Vinnyg, the link I am providing is to CastBoolits forum. At that site everything can be explained about cast boolits, how to make them, how to load them and proper application of said bullets. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php Tin and lead mix with out antimony is the classic blackpowder cartridge mix and revolver mix. In hollowpoint molds the mix expands with out fracturing. It is a great mix. Elmer Keith developed his semi wadcutters for the .357 and .44 magnums using the 16 to 1 mix. Wheel weights are good bullet metal as is. Drop from the mold to water and it even gets harder. You can mix in pure lead to make even more good revolver metal just a little less hard than the wheel weights alone. Go to the Cast boolits site and you will learn a lot. They also have group buys of molds, even cramer hollowpoint conversions. You can make what ever type of boolit you need. (The cramer has reversable pins that allow you to cast hollow points or flat nosed bullets, depending upon your needs. Have Fun | |||
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Hey fellas, we were talking smokeless revolvers with pure and many of you have strayed pretty far. But I enjoyed all of the humor so I won't tell you a serious story about quick draw and hip shooting ducks going 70 MPH in the wind at 200 yards using a .25 auto!  Then the only use I ever found for a golf club---throwing it at pheasants when they flush! You Texans do things the easy way! | |||
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