Let me start out by saying I started casting about 3 months ago. Only know as much as I've read on this site and castboolits.com. Decided to get into it as I have an abundance of pure lead and a little linotype. Also acquired some WW from the tire shop. All clean and poured into bars for cleaner casting sessions indoors. Adding approx. 2oz. tin to each batch of 2 pure, 2 ww, 1 lino resulting in a batch from 5 1/2 to 6 lbs. Tried adding more tin with no appreciable difference.

Purchased a Saeco 4 cavity mould, 64040, SWC bevel base from Midway. Saeco was on sale for a little less than I could get an RCBS. Went with the Saeco thinking it was the better buy for the money. Now I wonder.
This mould was supposed to cast at .401. I'm getting anywhere between .400 and .399 with my mix. Have tried different combinations of pure/ww/lynotype with no success in getting them to cast bigger. When running them through the Lyman .401 sizer they barely touch the bands on the boolit, it is only lubing them. These are keyholeing bad unless I get the velocity down around 775 fps. Need Help! What am I doing wrong?

While I'm asking for help please let me know what type sizer you folks use for a bevel base boolit. The recommended Lyman sizer for my mould has a flat bottom and uses about half again more lube than it should when lubing a bevel base design. No biggy, just a pain to wipe off the excess lube from the base of the boolit while the lube is still warm. Using Lyman Orange Magic and it sure seems like I go through alot. Does anyone make a .401 sizer for a bevel base?
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Fishin' Magician

First this has become a problem with most of the big mould manufacturers...that is casting too small a bullet.

I'm surprised someone didn't tell you on Cast Boolits to "beagle" the mould. That's where you use that aluminum tape used for example on heating ducts. You lay pieces of it on on half of the mould blocks in certain areas to keep the mould open a slight amount from fully closing. If done properly you don't get fins, but you do get a larger bullet although it won't be perfectly round, which doesn't seem to effect the shooting of it.

As for the bevel base leaking lots of lube I happen to have a 45 acp bevel base mould from Saeco also and the bevel on mine isn't quite so large and I don't have that much of a problem with it. Again they have solutions for that on the Cast Boolit forum.....you just need to searh or ask them. I guess if you had a lathe you could make a bullet punch in the die to fit the contour of that bevel base bullet bottom, but then you may not be able to use it on plain flat based bullets.

Just go back to Cast Boolits and type beagling in the search engine.

One more thing is you may give Saeco a call and explain your problem....who knows maybe they will correct it.

When using the Lyman sizer, when you push the bullet down into die hold firm pressure on the handle while you just barely bump the lube feed ratchet. Sometimes you get a bullet or two in between needing to bump( just barely) the ratchet. This firm pressure is not handle breaking linkage bending pressure---but firm. If you don't hold firm pressure you willl get lube on the bottom everytime. Try these two techniques and you should get more miles out of a stick of lube.

I've never had a problem with Saeco molds, but then I cast hot. My alloy is WW and a bit of tin. The only time I use pure tin is when I cast slugs for swaging.
Pure lead has the greatest contraction when cool, the harder the alloy the less contraction you'll have.

Jim

Well for one thing if you're using ww's, and lino I'd go ahead and eliminate the tin altogether unless you're having mould fill out problems. In my opinion too much tin is not good. My alloy is 50/50 which is pure lead/ww's. You can make your bullets harder by dropping them straight from the mould into a large bucket of water. You do have to let them "age" as they grow harder with time. I wouldn't shoot them until about two weeks aging time. Another way to harden them is to first size them with no lube and set them on a tray base down and bake them in the oven at a temperature below the melting point of the alloy....say like 450 deg. Let them bake for over an hour or so then take them out and drop them in water asap. On the method where you are dropping them from the mould directly into a bucket of water make sure you size them as soon as possible because when they start to harden they are much harder to size. I size mine if I use that method the same day I cast them.

If your pistols barrel has a groove of say .401 you at least want bullets that are a thousandth or two larger then the groove. Ideally fit the throat or cast the largest diameter that will let the cartridge chamber and have a little bit of expansion room for the case to expand and release the bullet.

Bullets that you harden by either method I explained will grow in dimensions as they harden over time.

If you still aren't getting large enough bullets I'd give Saeco a call and explain your problem. There is a good chance they will want your mould back and will examine it.

Thanks all for the replies.

The idea of beagleing sounds like it might work. I think I'll give Saeco a chance to remedy before altering in any way.
I also read of casting a couple of slugs for each cavity, installing a screw and then honing out the cavities with abrasive. How much honing would it take for a steel mould and what kind of abrasive should I use? Would valve grinding compound work? I've also read this technique improves the dropping of the boolits as it makes the cavities smoother.
Thanks again for the help!

Fishin' Magician

You can use a valve grinding compound if it's fine enough. I have a can of Clover 0000. It's a very tedious job and if you have a ways to go it takes a long time and you have to make up more then one lapping slug. You have to be very careful doing it or can end up with an out of round mould and rounded edges that should be sharp edges.

Give Saeco a call first, that's free. See what they have to say. If you mess with a mould they won't help you.

I would talk to Saeco if your mould is throwing less than a .401" boolit with clip-on wheel weight metal, especially if you've added antimony and tin to it. I agree with Joe, too much tin is a waste, and though I often add enough to bring my alloys up to 2% total, it isn't necessary for most things and can even cause problems if there isn't too much antimony (less than 3-4% or so) in the mix.

If you're pushing a .400" boolit into a .401" "H" die, you will have a mess because lube will leak freely around the sides and squirt up around the upper driving band. Like Carpetman said, hold firm pressure while turning the lube pressure screw just enough to lube that one boolit. You might back it off just a hair before ejecting the boolit to relieve pressure. If your "H" die has multiple "layers" of holes and your boolit is a single-groove design, take some plumber's solid-core solder and nip off little pills with wirecutters and swage them into the bottom row of holes to plug off the lube, then adjust the bottom stop to perfectly align the boolit's lube groove with the open set of lube holes, thus eliminating the lube from seeping up from the bottom of the boolit.

Bevel-based boolits can be a pain because lube tends to get on the bevelled part, but having a tight-fitting boolit (i.e. just larger than what you're sizing down to) will help keep the lube in the groove and off the bottom. Some people have made ejectors (the "I" part of the sizer die in Lyman's terms) with bases machined to fit the bevel base in the same way a top punch fits the nose, and since that doesn't leave any room for lube to go, it won't get on the bevel part or the base. A "poor boy's" trick is to punch a piece of meat-packing styrofoam with and empty shell case and put the disc in the bottom of the die, this acts as a leak-stopper and helps prevent lube from getting into the bevel of the boolit, but you have to replace it and futz with it from time to time, and it is no substitute for a fat enough boolit or incorrect die stop adjustment.

Beagling works fine for making boolits fatter (the sizer generally makes them round again), and lapping works too, but these are really just band-aids for moulds past their returnable window. I'd get a mould that casts like it should if I were you, no need to have to patch a new product.

Hope this helps,

Gear

I think bevel base bullets were made for: loading by folks who are too lazy to get the expander die set and bullet aligned properly, and for use in an automatic lube-sizer. At best, the extra lube is a pain; in a Saeco lubesizer, it is a constant mess. I much prefer the flat bullet bases, which I've found to shoot better and not have the lube problems.

Clarence

The bevel based bullets were made to facilitate easier loading and it's a myth that flat base bullets are more accurate.

Depending on how much of a bevel there is makes a difference in how sloppy the lubing will be. Like I mentioned I have a Saeco 45 200 grain SWC bevel base it's it lubes almost as clean as a flatbase.