The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Cast Bullets Re: Who would like a Lyman 452423 mold ?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Well, judging from the responses here, we don't have enough interest for 25 orders. I would order 2 myself, but some folks just plain don't like Lee molds. Seems I underestimated the number of shooters who would want a 6 cavity Lee mold in this design. I'm not a member of Cast Boolits, but if one of you want to ask over there, maybe we can get some interest from that camp. BTW, the person I spoke with at Midsouth was a woman. I did not get her name, but she put me on hold and checked with someone else before giving me the firm "no" answer. | ||
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Quote: I just spoke with Midsouth. They only special order Lee molds that are in the Lee catalog. They do not do special orders of a new design. When I told her what I had in mind she said I would have to go directly to Lee. | |||
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I have a 2-cavity #452423 that I bought new about 25 years ago. I really like that bullet. I would definitely buy a 6-cavity Lee mould, and know several others who would also buy one. Post a notice here when Midway begins taking orders. The 2-cavity Lee moulds have never impressed me, but I like their 6-cavity moulds. The Lee 230 gr. truncated cone bullet for the .45 ACP is also an excellent bullet. | |||
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Sounds like a bullet I would be interrested in. I think it would fly.. I been thinking it be great to have Lee do all the Keith 38,41,44,and 45 moulds in 6 cav Just as keith would of had them cut them would be great. I think maybe could get others interrested? Seems like Neal getting a hard time for a group that comes up with some great group buys on great bullets? gregg | |||
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Quote: Well you are not the only one who does not like Lee Molds. But, some love 'em. I have a friend that shoots a lot of pistol competition, and he won't use anything but the Lee 6 holers. He is the guy with a Master Caster collecting dust. Different strokes for different folks.  Thanks, Neal | |||
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I think that all of us should write Lyman and let them know of the demand. I bet if they cut a new cherry for this bullet that they could not keep up. Cowboy shooters alone would have high demand for this as it should feed well also in the lever guns. Chargar, That is a great article you wrote on the 423. You may be why I paid $127.00 for a 4 cavity 423!!. But I never looked back either. Thanks. Jim | |||
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Why not work up the design for a Lee 6 cavity mould and turn it over to Midsouth Shooters? Pricing from them would be the same as other special order moulds at around $35. | |||
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For whatever it is worth, I email Lyman requesting the restoration of 452423 to their product line. | |||
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Quote: Thanks for the tip. I'll look into that. Neal | |||
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[quote Ballisti-cast sells the H&G molds. 4 cavity is listed at $155.00 on their website. My best guess is #1102 is the Keith style Auto Rim bullet. Take a look. http://www.ballisti-cast.com/Bullet%20Designs%20Page%206.htm Lyman 4 cavities were way cheaper than that when they were new, but now that they are no longer made, the used 4 cavity Lymans that go on auction bring about as much as a new Ballisti-cast. Neal Neal, There is no comparison between the quality of an H&G or Ballisticast 4 cavity and a Lyman 4 cavity. I've cast from both, and the H&G/B 4 shooter is like comparing a Freedom arms revolver to a Ruger. You get what you pay for. That said, I'm in the camp that doesn't like spending much on molds, and I find the Lee 6 cavity to be a bullet making machine, and very resonably priced for what you get. Just don't let the sprue get cold on a hard alloy and all is fine. | |||
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I was looking for a 452423 for some time. Managed to find a single hole mold on ebay for $40 buck. While I haven't had a chance to cast any there was allready a bullet in the mold. Not really interested in marathon single hole casting I ordered a 'copy' mold from Dan. Should arrive soon I hope. So this is what I ordered. .454-456 dia Band lentgh .090 nose length .325 wt 240 GtoB 1.0 Groove angle 55 metplat 73% alloy #2 original Keith Large keith crimp Played with the program with calipers in hand and that is what I wound up with. Brian | |||
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bdoyle...I took a couple of bullets from a pre-WWII Ideal 452423 and got the specs for Mountain Moulds online program and they vary a little bit from yours. The original Keith design had three driving bands of equal length, one large square grease groove and a 45 degree crimp groove. The online program will not let you get all three bands the same length, but you can get close. On the original Keith the bands are .70 in length and the lube groove is .100 in length and is square with 90 degree corners. Overall length is .650. On Mountain Mould specs I set the top band like the original at .70 and played with the other specs to get as close as I could. Here is what I came out with. As cast Diameter (WW=2% tin) - .453-.455 All bands same as above Front Band - .70 Nose length - .325 Weight - 240 Meplat -72% GtoB - 1.3 Groove Angle - 55 Plain base - All Body bands same length Over the years, Lyman changed specs as they cut new cherrys and this used to drive Keith nuts, but the the above is as close to the original critter as you can get giving the limitations of the interactive online program. | |||
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Neal, Count me in for at least 2 of them. Making 12 or 16 at a time sounds even better!!. How did the dimensions come out on samples? Thanks for helping put this together for all of us. Jim | |||
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I would !!!! But, there none available as Lyman discontinued this great bullet design several years ago. And, very few of these molds show up on e-bay and when they do show up, they go for outrageous prices. It's that old rule of supply and demand. So, what do you think of a group purchase of Lee 6 cavity molds in this Keith design for .45 Auto Rim? It also works fine in .45 Colt and they shoot good in my .45 ACP semi-autos. Here is a link to a short article on this bullet. http://www.sixguns.com/crew/cba.htm Is there any interest ? | |||
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Mr. Graf, Thanks for the response. It's Ballisti-cast who still makes the H&G molds, and a 6 cavity mold from them is $245.00. I have been shooting the 452423 lately, and I also have tried the LBT version of it, but the LBT version has a wider meplat and won't feed in my 1911s. You probably wonder where I'm getting these bullets. A neighbor/friend has the molds and has been supplying me with bullets, but I would like to have my own molds. If this does not fly, and it looks like it won't from the responses so far, then I will probably start trying 255 gr Keith style bullets in my favorite 1911. I had one 452424 bullet on the bench and loaded it in a case and even at a longer OAL, it went into the magazine and fed fine in my Wilson. The 255 gr Keith style molds are available from several makers, including Lee. I know the Ballisti-cast are good molds, but at my dealers price, I can buy 8 Lee 6-cavity molds for the price of 1 Ballisti-cast 6-cavity. Even at the $50.00 retail price I can buy almost 5 Lees for the price of 1 Ballisti-cast. Hence, my thoughts of the group purchase of a custom Lee. Apparently some folks don't like the Lee molds, but I have a friend with a Master Caster and it sits idle because he can out perform the machine by hand casting with Lee 6 cavities. | |||
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Quote: Ballisti-cast sells the H&G molds. 4 cavity is listed at $155.00 on their website. My best guess is #1102 is the Keith style Auto Rim bullet. Take a look. http://www.ballisti-cast.com/Bullet%20Designs%20Page%206.htm Lyman 4 cavities were way cheaper than that when they were new, but now that they are no longer made, the used 4 cavity Lymans that go on auction bring about as much as a new Ballisti-cast. Neal | |||
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Neal..The subject useing Keith bullet in a 1911 auto comes up on a regular basis on various cast bullet boards and some folks use the heavier Keith bullets (255-260 grains) and are well satisfied with them. There are several considerations to this practice. 1. Seating the Keith body in the case reduces the case capacity and requires a reduced powder charge to keep the pressure within limits. There is not a lot of reliable pressure tested data out there on this practice. 2. Slide speed/momentum plays a big part in the longevity of the firearm. The heavier the bullet the harder the hit on the slide and frame. Users of the heavy 260 Keith use extra tough springs and feel this compensates just fine. It is for these reasons that I would prefer to stick with the lighter 452423 bullet in the autopistol. I got out the tools and some original Ideal 452423 bullet and played with Mountain Moulds computor design program. I can get very close to the original design, but it is off a hair, but not enough to matter. Should you want the specs, I printed them off. It would be a simple matter to keep the nose length and profile that sticks out of the case the same as 452423 and play with the bottom bands and lube groove to reduce the length of the body and weight for a 225-230 grain bullet. For use in the 1911 this would give a more mormal powder capacity and slide speed, while keeping the great slap em down nose while picking up some velocity. With lube in the crimp groove, there is plenty of room to reduce the length of the lube groove without running the risk of having too little lube. I cannot think of a better field and defense bullet for the 45 autopistol. For future reference here are some specs. Top band width .700 Nose Length .325 - This includes the top band Meplat 72% Total length of bullet - .650 When cast of WW plus a little tin, the originals cast out at about 244 grains. Cheers.. | |||
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Yep..the Ballisti-cast moulds are the ones I was thinking about. Dan (Moultain Moulds) will cut a three hole aluminum for $95 and a two hole for $60. I have a 4 hole Lyman, a one hole Lyman and a 3 hole Hoch clone. The last four hole I saw on ebay was a year or two ago and it went for $110.00. Even the 2 hole moulds go for way more than a new Lyman. Alot of folks must like these moulds. While on the subject..I think Lee moulds are crap and would pay more to another maker to get a good mould. I started to get in on the fat 30 special order 6 hole Lee mould, but I just don't want another Lee mould and a 6 hole in particular. I went to Mountain Moulds and designed my own fat 30 for my oversize Marlin Microgroove and Long Branch No. 4 .303 Brit. For the same price, I would much rather have a 2 hole Mountain Mould than a 6 hole lee. I have had nothing but bad luck with Lee products in general and Lee moulds in particular.. Cheers | |||
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Quote: I have been reading some over on Cast Boolits. Funny, just read a post tonight where a fella is wanting to start casting again and is looking for a 452423. ha ha. I appreciate your thougths and efforts on this, but if I was going to have Dan make a mold for my 1911, I would have him make one for maximum powder space and get as much bullet out front as possible.(not a semi-wadcutter design) I believe one of his customers has already done that and he has it on his order page. The beauty of the 452423 is it works so well for revolver and semi-auto, at least it does in mine. And, if we had one in a Lee 6 cavity, it would be high production and relativly cheap. As far as 1911 longevity, I use shock buffs in all of them, and match the recoil spring weight to the load. Currently using a Wolff 18.5 lb, but going to try a 20 lb as soon as I can get one. With the stock spring, which is probably 16 lbs or so, it ate up my Wilson shock buff in less than 200 rounds! I have owned and shot 1911's for about 30 years, and am well aquainted with them. Also, I own molds by Lyman, Saeco, RCBS, LBT, NEI, Lee, (although I have yet to use my 6 cavity 358 from the group purchase), uh, I think thats all of them. Thanks, Neal | |||
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Bdoyle..I went back and rechecked those spec against some bullets from my 4 cavity Lyman. Well guess what..you are correct. Turns out I was measuring a bullet from my Hoch clone I had made several years back. They were in a box labled .452423. The Hoch measures .70,80,.100 on the bands top to bottom. The Lyman measures .90 on all three bands. You got it right and I got it wrong. Glad to catch that..thanks. | |||
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Charger, On the mould that I have (circa unknown, black / white stripe box) the lead band is .090. It is also a round lube groove style. The OAL is .645. Just variations in lyman style / mood. On the side I think your .70 might just be .07 But since I all ready put my money down I'm just a waitin' for it to show up. Brian | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Cast Bullets Re: Who would like a Lyman 452423 mold ?
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