I'm currently "trying out" A 4" Kimber which may get built into my next carry gun, (or may be a Xmas present for my wife if she shoots it well). I cleaned it up a bit, gave it a good lube job and shot 100 rounds of condom carry ammo through it. It shoots far better than I do, and points faster than my 5" gun, so it may be a keeper. I tore it down for a serious cleaning tonite, prior to cast bullet trials, and I'm finding that one groove has some seriously plated on fouling, looks like lead but is really on there hard. I've given it the chore boy scrubbing 4 or 5 times and I'm starting to see the edge of the lands on both sides, but there's still lead in that one pesky groove. I'm tempted to try the Ammonia/Peroxide routine, but I don't want to etch this barrel. I expect this one groove may have some machining marks, (not uncommon in Kimbers), which cause it to lead significantly. But I don't want to wear off the other lands just getting to the bottom of the one bad groove so I can lap it. Any ideas? BD

BD
I see you mentioned in your post that you shot some condom carry loads. The question I have is if the gun was fired previously with lead loads?
Normally if a gun fired with lead loads is shot with condoms afterwards the condoms clean out the leading, providing the condoms loads aren't full hilt loads. Are you sure the lead in the one groove is indeed lead? I've seen stubborn lead in my times but nothing that brushing wouldn't get out especially in a 45 acp barrel. Most of the time the grooves are shallow in the 45acp barrels.
Have you tried any of the copper remover bore cleaners? I'd try those first. I believe you should get this fouling out before lapping and lapping might be a good idea if there are indeed tooling marks.

Do you have access to a Foul-Out unit?
If not, you might try letting one of the super-penetrating oils (Kroil, CorrosionX etc) soak in the barrel overnight (or even longer), then use a cleaning jag with a very tight patch to literally push the fouling off of the barrel. It's much slower, but not nearly as much work as trying to brush the fouling out.

I tried some Hoppes brenchrest copper solvent and got no blue/green staining to indicate much copper. In addition I can see the marks from the chore boy in the surface of this fouling so I think it's softer than copper. It shows as lead on a clean patch as well. Actually I think that shooting Jacketed rounds over the fouling may have lead to the stubborn condition I'm seeing. I've seen lead "ironed" into the bore by jacketed bullets before, IMHO a gas check bullet at low velocity is a far better "cleaner" than any condom slug. I think that I've gotten most of the lead out of this barrel, with the exception of the one groove which seems to have a real grip on the fouling. I do have a home made reverse plating unit, but it's got a 30" rod. This is a 4" barrel. It's in for an overnight in a bottle of Ed's Red tonite. BD

BD, I hate to even mention it, but if done carefully and safely, how about some mercury? One time deal, and you're done. If nothing else works, fit a new barrel. Or maybe lapping compound, Bon Ami, or JBs. sundog

BD
Since Sundog mentioned something he really didn't want I will too. I have been known to take a pick or a very small screwdriver, but whatever it is make sure it's not as hard the barrel steel nor sharp. With these tools I've literally scraped out the lead very carefully.

Sundog...mercury is pretty bad stuff. I know we all did the old penny trick turing it silver with mercury and other foolish things. I worked at one of the General Electric Lamp factories that made flourescent tubes. They have a small little ball of mercury in each one..part of the mechanism that makes they light. Anyways the workers that worked close to the machinery that put that mercury drop in the lamps had to be blood monitored often. It gets in your blood easily. I forget the temperature exactly where mercury starts to vaporize but it's in the room temperature vicinity. Best thing to do with mercury is to leave it alone.

BD, the easiest way to lead a barrel is to shoot condom bullets and then lead without getting all the copper out first. Lead will really hold on to copper fouling.

I forget who makes it but their is a lead remover cloth that is availble commercially that I have cut patches from with good success. Gianni.

Chuck a 50 cal brush in a drill, turn on the drill and run the spinning brush into the barrel.

Starmetal,
One is exposed to more danger by getting mercury on the skin than by breathing supposed vapors at room temperature. When I have to clean up spilled mercury I double glove and use a special vacuum pump system. At room temperatures there isn't dangerous vapors. If there were vapors at room temp then the government wouldn't allow the use of Mercury manometers in hospitals and clinics. If one is very careful you can use mercury to get lead out of a barrel but then the dilema is how to properly dispose of that mercury. Unless you work in the medical field that is the problem. Orygun

re: JohnM's comment -

I too have one of the lead removing gizmo's that uses the rubber plug on the end of a cleaning rod to press the 'lead removing cloth' to the barrel.

It is a fine meshed brass screening cut into a circle with a small hole in it where the screw holds it to the tool.

So that brings up two possiblities - the commercially available tool (that neither of us can remember the name) and using something home-made to gently scrape the 'stuff' out of the bore without scratching.

That suggests either duplicating the brass wire screen material or something else like the BRASS (not stainless) Chore Boy (Chore Girl renamed for marketing reasons)scratchy cleaning pads.

Orygun Mark

Unfortunately you are one of the many that don't realize and understand the hazards of mercury.
Mercury and mercury contaminated materials vaporize at room temperature. Mercury vapor is extremely toxic. Mercury is the only heavy metal that is liquid at room temperature. Because of this and other useful properties it usage�s are commonplace. It is actually more harmful to inhale the vapor from a bead of mercury than to ingest the same bead. At room temperature mercury vaporizes readily into an invisible, odorless, and tasteless poison.

Ambient mercury levels in the breathing zone can be controlled if personnel are aware of and trained in mercury management. Be conscious of the hazard of unseen mercury contamination in cracks, corners and untreated storage containers.

Mercury vaporizes at room temperature making it readily respirable where it is absorbed into the bloodstream. Mercury is both acutely and chronically toxic and can damage the kidneys, liver, lungs, and brain.

R23 Toxic by inhalation R33 Danger of cumulative effects R50/53 Very toxic to aquatic organisms, may cause long term adverse effects in the aquatic environment. S38 In case of insufficient ventilation, wear suitable respiratory equipment. S45 In case of accident or if you feel unwell, seek medical advice immediately (show the label where possible). S60 This material and/or its container must be disposed of as hazardous waste

Boiling Point: 674�F/357�C Vapor Pressure: 0.0018 mmHg @ 25�CMelting Point: -38�F/-39�C

Notice the Vapour pressure at 25C which is around 77 F. which is ROOM TEMPERATURE

They have started making thermometers without mercury in them and it will eventually be banned.

If you got some Kroil available you might try that. Squirt some down the barrel and let it set for a while. I've found it does get under the lead and makes removal a lot easier. Of course I have a Lewis lead remover too and sometimes that's what it takes to get a clean bore. Between the two of them it makes very short work of leaded up pistol barrels.

I'm a family doctor. Haven't seen a mercury-containing sphygmomanometer in a hospital or clinic in many years. I have one that was given to me, a portable one that belonged to a long-dead physician. Nobody uses mercury thermometers anymore in the office or hospital, either.

Starmetal,
OK so I don't know what I am talking about. NOT. We just had DEQ in looking at our waste stream and all chemicals in our facilities. We have wall hanging Mercury manometers in almost every treatment room and exam room. The only concern is that we don't dump it into the waste stream. Unless heated to higher than room temperatures it doesn't vapor off in the hazard area. Mecury manometers are more accurate than any others on the market. If they were so dangerous they wouldn't sell them as they are vented to the atmosphere. We just installed 20 of them that were brand new in the last remodel. Lead is also hazardous if used wrong. There are lots of chemicals that are dangerous if used wrong. Orygun

[ 10-16-2003, 00:16: Message edited by: Orygun Mark ]

BD, let's go quick and nasty. 50-50 hydrogen peroxide and distilled vinegar. Mix up a batch, drop a clean boolit in, and do a carefull looksee. When you start to see cloudy, that's lead acetate, meaning that's the lead coming out of your barrel. Sorta' time that looksee. Now, drop your barrel in, moving it back and forth very, very slowly slowly. Wash it off in water with some baking soda mixed in, just a 1/4 teaspoon per quart. Wash in plain water. Any more lead? If so, do a repeat for the same time period. Never leave the barrel un-attended, and never let it sit still because the reaction will be TOO FAST. ... felix

Degrease the barrel first, and use rubber gloves because of the lead acetate, which is also not to kosher for ya'... felix

I bought a Hoppes Lead removal cloth today and cut it into patches. After a lot of elbow grease I got it pretty well clean although I can still see some plating in the one lumpy groove. I'm going to start with some gas check slugs and then move on to my competition loads and see if it leads back up in that groove. If it does, I'll go with the Vinegar/Peroxide solution. BD

AM I the only one who does not know what a condom load is? Ahhh, make that a condom bullet!

Anyway, what is it?

Some condoms are made from latex, and some are made from gliding metal. Since this is a cast bullet forum, we prefer shooting them as they came from the oven.

Brass screen and rubber plug= Lewis Lead Remover. Ancient technology but mine still works when I need it. derf

I believe that this was the worst example of the indiscriminate mixing of cast with condoms I've ever seen. I've cleaned up old swedes, which looked like a muddy road, but were easier to clean up. BD

BD, I forgot to mention that the hydrogen peroxide and vinegar solution might weaken or take off the blueing. Do a time test with a still drop on some hidden area before putting the whole barrel in. If so, you will have to ramrod (very slowly) the stuff out with a soaking wet paper towel. ... felix

Mark, condom bullets are nothing more than jacketed bullets. It's just that these guys don't talk like normal people (does that mean we're abnormal?)so it takes us novices a while to sometimes figure it out.
BD, I've used the 50/50 peroxide/vinegar in a blackhawk 45 cylinder before and it works amazingly fantastic and fast. I recommend 5 minute soak with absolutely no more than 15 minutes. In fact I'm leary of 15 minutes but that was what was recommended to me. I left a resizing die overnight once and it was pitted/rusted the next morn...Gary D.

That's pretty versatile stuff. Works on skunked dogs (or bullet casters) as well as leaded barrels.

I have found with new barrels that exhibit this trait smooth out after cleaning with JB Bore compound a few times.