This is a question I'm not sure witch board to go to? I have just picked up a Marlin 1894 Micro groove barrel in 44 mag. I was wondering if anyone has had any luck shooting cast bullets with the Micro groove barrel. I am looking to see if anyone has had any luck with the Micro groove and cast bullets before changing out the barrel. I will have my gunsmith open up the receiver and changing the feed ramp for the longer COL.

I do have a Lee (C430-310-RF) mold that cast bullet at .431 with WW, and weigh 320gr lube and checked.

I am looking at re barreling this gun to a 1:9 twist. Has anyone tried this yet and if so how did it work?

Thank you for any and all your help.

I have owned several Marlin 1894s in 44mag and one in 357. All had MicroGroove barrels. None would shoot cast bullets, at least not the loads I tried. All were very accurate with jacketed however.

My experience is just the opposite of fla3006's, but my Marlins are #336's in .30-30 Win. & .45-70 Gov't. Both will -> 2 m.o.a. or better accuracy with bullets cast from wheelweights + 1% Sn, air-cooled, not heat-treated or water-dropped to harden them. The trick is to use a bullet larger than bore dia. and to experiment until you find a CB design and powder/powder charge your gun likes. E.g., my .30-30 does rather well with a CB (155gr. Loverin) @ .310" and a tapered Saeco (#315) design @ .311". The .45-70 does best with .459" CB's of various designs. However, microgrooves & pistol calibers may be more of a challenge: Bullet weight, bullet design, bullet fit (especially this one), bullet hardness (maybe), powder choice and powder charge are where I'd begin.

I have VERY limited experience with the Marlin and cast, but I remember reading an article by Dave Scovill several years back in an issue of handloader. He stated that he had shot literally thousands of cast projectiles out of Marlin Micro-Groove barrels with very good results. Then he read an article by someone else and discovered the Marlin wouldn't shoot cast...

I've shot cast bullets in two 30-30 Marlins and one 45-70, all with the M/G barrels. The 45-70 is a consistant 1.5" rifle with the Lyman #457122 330 gr. HP sized to .459". Both 30-30s responded well to Lyman's #311291 and the RCBS #30-180-FN giving groups in the 1.5" range loaded to full 30-30 power. Reduced to about 1800 FPS tightened groups up to 1 .25". The RCBS bullet weighs 190 gr. in my alloy and behaves like the old .303 Savage and is a good killer of deer. The Lyman bullet has never given any problems in my rifles and does a good job on deer as well. Lyman's #31141/311041 (same bullet) never has shot well for me in my 30-30 rifles, but many people swear by it. me? I just swear at it. YMMV.
Paul B.

I've done a good bit of shooting with a Marlin .44 Mag. Plain based bullets are only suitable for very light plinking loads, but can shoot very well in the 1000-1200 fps range. Here's some good data for them. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

For full house loads, you have to use gas checked bullets, they must be oversized (.431-.432), hard, and in the 240-270 grain range. The Lee 310 grain will not stablize at .44 Mag velocities in that 1-38" twist barrel.

The Lyman 255 grain Keith type bullet has given me great results with full house loads. Nothing else has come close and I have tried many.

This are my experiences with the Marlin 44Mag. I bought a new one in 1995. I shot cast bullets 225- 255 Gr. My best group was 8 inch at 50 yards. The same with factory loads The factory put on a new barrel. No improvement .So I talked them into trading me a 45/70 marlin instead fooling with a third barrel. The best thing I ever did. Getting away from that 1:38 inch groove.My 45/70 shoots fine, thank you.

bm-3

Don't let anyone tell you that you can get a Marlin Micro Groove to shoot good with cast bullets. I have two 94 Marlins in 44 mag one in 357 mag and one in 357x44 Bain & Davis. The most accurate one by far is the 357 B&D, best group at 100 yds with it is 1.25, the 357 mag's best group is 1.5 at 100 yds, both the 44 mags go into about 2.5--3.0 inches at 100 yds.
The 357 Mag and 357 B&D both shoot a 180 gr cast GC that I do myself. The 44's did best with 240 SWC GC from a Lee mold. Group no better than that I might as well trade them off but I don't want to take advantage of someone like that. Just make sure they are a few thou ove bore diameter.

Steve E.........

I have a .41 mag Marlin with MG barrel. the best cast bullet I have found is the Lee tumble lube design. I cast them from WW and water drop them from the mold. I lube with Lee liquid alox. I shoot the 170gn bullet at about 950fps for cowboy competition. With the 210gn bullet I can get 1400fps with 1.5-2 inch groups for both loads at 100 yards. Other cast bullets I tried did not do nearly as well. I have not tried a GC bullet yet. The bullets drop about 0.4125" from the mold and I think being oversized is the big factor in accuracy from a micro-groove barrel. I have been playing with a marlin 30-30 with cast bullets sized 0.312 and the results so far have been promising.

Well thank you all for the input, I think I'll try the gun as is first to see if it will shoot. I talked to a person that has a new Marlin that is not Micro groove and his shoots well with the 1:38 twist if you push it hard.

So, has anyone tried changing barrels and what twist did you go with? And most of all what kind of luck did you have?

The problem with the microgroove barrel is that because of the shallow rifling the cast bullet hardness and diameter are critical !!If yours isn't accurate look for a larger diameter and harder bullet.

quote:

The 357 Mag and 357 B&D both shoot a 180 gr cast GC that I do myself. The 44's did best with 240 SWC GC from a Lee mold. Group no better than that I might as well trade them off but I don't want to take advantage of someone like that.

Steve E, I will let you "take advantage of me" with those two rifles. What would you take for the two of them, and not back down?

Time is short, meditaite on thises things....

Slug the bore first, use an alloy ACWW or softer(8BHN-12BHN). Gas checks can be good, the bullet/barrel will tell you, but I like plain base and it will shoot at these velocities and pressures. Use a bullet same as groove diameter to .002" larger. The 44 Mag case is perfect, 1800 is about a maximum velocity with 240's, just undeer 1600 with 300's Best balance is likely 270-280 grains, heavier is not always better. Good slow speed accuracy may be easier to attain using full cases of 4198 or Reloder 7 than with light charges of powders like Unique/Green Dot. I found 1680 to be near perfect, but gave slower velocities than H110. A high quality lube is better than a hard bullet.

marlin makes a deep cut ballard type rifling, works best with cast bullets. My micro groove didn't shoot well, testing with a 10x scope on rifle at 100 yds. 44mag.

quote:

marlin makes a deep cut ballard type rifling, works best with cast bullets. My micro groove didn't shoot well, testing with a 10x scope on rifle at 100 yds. 44mag.

In my opinion the Marlin ballard type rifling is a joke. The one I saw was so shallow, it would not grip cast bullets and would not shoot them.

quote:

I am looking at re barreling this gun to a 1:9 twist. Has anyone tried this yet and if so how did it work?

That would be too much twist. You would be stripping the bullets. A 1 in 20" is near the limit. I have a .444 marlin with 1 in 20 twist and if velocity is too high,(above 1700) bullets (lyman #2 aloy) show a lot of skid befor catching up. This is because the rifling is a bit shallow for this use. It is a 10 groove, .429 Shilen.

Jed
I have looked at a Douglas for a barrel, bore in the barrel is .424 and groove is .4295. I did talk to Douglas and they recommend 1:20 or 1:18, and it was 8 or 10 groove.

There was some missing info from when I talked to Douglas about a barrel. I have two choices to go with. 1) Have a bore size of .417 and a groove size of .4295. 2) A bore size of .424 and a groove size of .4295. These barrels are 8 grooves. Witch way would you fellow casters go with and way.

Thank you for all your help and input.

I used to have a Marlin lever action 44mag that loved Lyman SWC Gas Check bullets. I shot them at about 1000fps to 1100fps the only problem I had was I needed to use a cleaning rod to get the shells out if I shot anything hotter.

When some ahole broke into my house and stold the rifle with all of my other guns it fixed the ejection problem, well at least for me since I didnt have it anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by bm-3:
I have two choices to go with. 1) Have a bore size of .417 and a groove size of .4295. 2) A bore size of .424 and a groove size of .4295. These barrels are 8 grooves. Witch way would you fellow casters go with and way.

Conventional wisdom says the deeper rifling (0.417" bore) would be better. I'm not convinced that it makes any difference, really, but deep grooves would be the safe choice.

What I would recommend is to NOT use a SAAMI chamber reamer when you rebarrel it. The SAAMI reamers for pistol cartridges typically have an oversize funnel in front of the case mouth, otherwise known as a "toilet bowl" throat. Instead, the chamber should step down to about 0.4305" in front of the case mouth followed by a gently tapered leade (somewhere between 1.5° and 5° included angle). This will probably require a custom reamer which means it will cost more, but IMHO the SAAMI chambers are the #1 accuracy problem with Marlin lever actions for pistol cartridges.

Amen, Dan. ... felix

Doubless

I would but I'm still trying to get it to shoot, I'm not going to let it get the best of me. I'm almost ready to get me one of the Marlin 94's in 45 Colt. If I'm not mistaken you can get them in Ballard rifling now. I'm hoping they also come in 24" Oct. barrel. What is the difference in what most people call regular rifling(that comes on the majority of guns today) and the Ballard type?

Steve E........

I have a Handi-Rifle in .44 Magnum. It has a micro-groove and 1 in 38" twist, and shoot the Lee 310 grain ahead of the book's maximum of H110. My barrel will shoot these into 1 3/4 inches at 100 yards. I do not size these at all before loading, and they measure .432. I gas check by feeding backwards into a Lee sizer, then puching them back out. they are pan lubed with 50/50 beezwax and alox.
I've killed two doe this year with this load. It is a good thing I didn't know I couldn't shoot these bullets with this rifle.

The problem appears to be that marlin barrels are cut oversize and as we know, cast bullets do not work if they are smaller than groove dia.

My .45-70 marlin couldn't shoot .458 dia. cast bullets at all. after slugging the barrel I found out why, it was .4592"! Shot the bullets as cast, .461", and it grouped below 2moa. I've slugged one other .45-70 and two .44 magnums (all new) and all were over size. All were very accurate when proper size bullets were used; so far this has just meant using bullets as cast.

I'm seeing alot of the right answers already but certain ones stick in my mind. I agree that the 1-10" twist is probably way too fast. I am just gonna let things rest on the micro-groove issue but if anyone would like to place $ on it, I'll bring my 1-38" twist Marlin .444 or my 336 30-30 and show you how it's done. Too small bullets and you get leading.

Newtire I believe that there has been a lot of time put into and one can get a Micro groove barrel to work with the info that has been posted here. I have a junk barrel and need a new one. So why should I go with something that has been improved on? What would you do? I'm looking at the 1:18 twist. Bore size I have not decided on at this point.

bm-3,
If you rebarrel your rifle, please sell the junk microgroove take-off barrel to me for a few bucks. I have an experiment in mind where I could use a 35, 41, or 44 caliber microgroove barrel.

popenmann, there is not much of a barrel to work with on this gun. If this works out I might be doing a second gun and that has a good barrel on it. Groove size in it is .4315 if that works for you? It will be some time down the road before I get to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Leftoverdj:
I've done a good bit of shooting with a Marlin .44 Mag. Plain based bullets are only suitable for very light plinking loads, but can shoot very well in the 1000-1200 fps range. Here's some good data for them. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm .

For full house loads, you have to use gas checked bullets, they must be oversized (.431-.432), hard, and in the 240-270 grain range. The Lee 310 grain will not stablize at .44 Mag velocities in that 1-38" twist barrel.

The Lyman 255 grain Keith type bullet has given me great results with full house loads. Nothing else has come close and I have tried many.

Looks like a gas check bullet will be more accurate in a micro groove barrel than a plain base bullet. Makes sense to me as the gas check takes the micro groove rifling better. I was testing with plain base bullets