........Without that chronological listing ability we'll have to watch the subject line, eh :-)?

My range buddy Ron was the "Soup Can King" locally. Using a rattley M94 thoity thoity of unknown date but with a Leu VII 3x9 scope I saw produce several 1" and 1.5" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. These were going a bit over 2000 fps over the sky screens. Of course at 100 yards with it's 'brick like' BC it's probably become fairly mild.

The charge was 21.0grs of H4198 and no filler (I don't think, maybe he did?). Lube was Javalina with Hornady GC's. As anti ground squirrel stuff from the 03A1 with a MV of 1600 fps or so, (Red Dot powder) it would surely wreak a squirrel's day at 50 yards.

It shot so well he decided to load up a bunch and campaign'em in the weekly Burrito Invitational. It was pure amazement to me how the accuracy went south with the scope off! We told him not to fret, as something just HAD to be wrong with the carbine :-)

One intersting thing about this bullet is that it falls from my mould @ .312" to a fat .314" (depending on alloy) but stands sizing down to .308" quite well. I guess there's not much by way of fancy design to go wrong with it.

In the past couple weeks I've been doing some light load target shooting work with it in a Ruger BH 30 M1 revolter. They're sized .308" and seated so the front of the top band is snubbed into the cylinder's throat, then taper crimped. Only having owned this pistol for about 15 years or so, I haven't had much chance to work with it :-). Not much of a peestol person.

Anyway, it appears that 2.2 to about 2.6grs of W231 is going to deliver sub 1.5", 5 shot groups at 25 yards. That's off the bags. Subject to major enlargement whilst standing up working the thing. Just so's I can say I covered the bases I'll have to try some Red Dot too. In any regard, a very fine little bullet that appears to work very well.

..........Buckshot

....Buckshot, your modest remarks re: sizing down the Lee 309113F are stunning coming from the 'prophet of the big squeeze'. To wit:
"...312" to .314"...but stands sizing down to .308" quite well[indeed!]. I guess[aaw c'mon Buckshot]there's not much by way of fancy design[???]to go wrong with it." Dang Buckshot, mon fr�re, that's so dang obtuse it simply obfuscates the issue!

Aren't you the same guy who harped on me for months to take big ole .323"plus pills and size em down a full ten thousandths to 'fat thirties'??? No problema! It certainly is a a "fancy design"! C'mon spit it out, it's spelled LOVERIN, and with it's multiple groove unt groove-riding profile, it's the ideal candidate for sizing down.

Are you, or are you not, the founder of F.O.O.L("Friends of Oversized Loverins")? As any degenerate defense counselor would say, just answer yes or no! ---Con esteem and disbelief, kid jethrow---

Awright, WhitShot......you've inspired me. Having had ZERO success with the "soup cans" in the longer barrelled 30 calibers, I will make a run of these critters at fattened diameters for the 32-20 revolvers. I still have a raft of empty 32-20 casings waiting for refill from the Winnemucca 2003 meeting, and some of them will get the Lees for a test-drive.

Hey Buckshot. I have a Lyman 115 gr. gas checked SWC in 30 caliber that will do about 1.20" at 25 yards from my 30 carbine BH. I load 5.0 gr. of Unique in mixed GI brass, the boolit sized .310" I also have a 120 gr. RN bevel based bullet from an old SAECO (original) mold that shoots in the same group size witht he same load. It casts out at .3095" so no sizing required. Makes a nice mild small game load.
Paul B.
Edited to correct ytpo. 12.0 shoulda been 1.20.

[ 08-25-2003, 23:40: Message edited by: Paul B ]

Paul B., "12"@25yds, you gotta be kidden. I think I like yer rifle shootin better! Or is that the trick pissola shot you've been practicing with your back to the target and shootin tween yer legs? ......and to think I was actually cogitating about gettin one of them .30 Carbine B.H., in spite of it's notorious extraction problems. ... kid jethrow...

........Jethrow Kid :-) awrite, awready. You're using words in my direction that I don't know how to take :-). Yes, yes I'm a F.O.O.L and also a L.U.S.H, yet the bitty Lee ISN'T a Loverin. All it is is a bullet body with no nose.

BTW, I also tried the Lee C309120R and it seems to wanna shoot as well, but it makes really crappy bullet holes in the paper. And, when shooting peestols for money with these cretins I hang around with, it is of no little import to glean every bit of advantage you can.

Mentioning the 30 M1 Ruger back at you, you may (or may not, I don't know) find it interesting that it's 20" twist WILL stabilize a 150gr boolit :-). Beagle had sent me some awile back from a discontinued Lyman mould. These have a flatnose in the extreme. Using 11.5 grs of surp WC820 they group fairly well (sub 2.5") and go through nose first at 25 yards. Possibly at 28 yards they may go haywire but I doubt it, as hitting the 200 meter gong with them didn't present a large problem.

What earthly use they are is debateable. Possibly Javalina out your way? The report is memorable :-), and compared to .357's shot at the gong sure seem to be flat shooting. At least I could aim at a rock just above the plate to hit it, and not some passing cloud, ha!

.......PaulB, the chamber mouths of mine mike .308" and that's how it seems to like it's bullets sized. I don't recall trying any sized .310" but did try a batch at .309" and those at the smaller size seemed to do better overall. Just the difference in machines I guess?

.........Buckshot

Estimado Buck-Whit, since we are both F.O.O.L.s we should probably agree on what "loverin" is. Being a simple country boy, I define it rather casually as a full-groove-riding boolit with multiple lube grooves, and usually(but not always, i.e. 323371)with a short ogive nose of a caliber or less. Shur don't define it so narrowly as to insist that it actually was a boolit designed by the famous tirador of the twenties from the late great state of Massachusetts(now gone over to the New World Order). ...but, perhaps I am missing something here???? ----galena, the younger---

Take notice, I edited my typo. I shot a 1.20" group, not 12.0. OOPS!
Paul B.

........PaulB, now lookit here. None of us Shooters.com guys are used to that, and your going back and changing things is something to be taken up by the Rooles Kommittee, I think.

Reason being, before, once it was sent, that was it. Your mistake was there forever for all to see, and the poster to lament over once sobered up. Now what is going to happen is that everyone who poked fun are going to look like idjits because the boo-boo is gone. What this will entail is all the respondents now have to go back and edit their own posts so THEY don't look like dorks.

This will be a tremendous amount of work for all involved IMHO, and not very sporting. YOU made the mistake and as an adult should have to live with it, and take full responsibility. NOT make a bunch of work for others. See my point :-)Sheesh!

Jet-kid, (HA!) my take on a Loverin (and my true desire is that this NOT degenerate into a 'bore-land-groove' thing <VBG> is that it's a boolit having a design where the drive bands are of equal, or close to equal width as the lube grooves. I don't know how confrontationally frisky you feel at the moment, but I'm about whipped.

I'm personally disinterested in the statistical validity you'll probably bring up, having to do with the benefit of an equal number of LG's to DB's. Further, my experimenting with odd numbers of each in decending order, having to do with air turbulance along the body is beginning to show some results.

I will admit to having read your published report in the Galenaholics Quarterly which cast asperations, aspirasions, uh questions about my wind tunnel work as spurious and non-proffessional. I'll wager that if you were tethered in there with me, I'd not be the only one yelling, "I can fly, I can fly!"

If you should like to inject discussion as to legitimate nose designs a'la historicly correct boolits designed by the saint hisself, or others prostituted in his name, I don't know if I'm currently up to it. We have house guests and I can't lounge, pick and scratch normally. But one monstrosity is the Lyman 323471 which although popular with the 8mm cognosenti (yes I have one) is an abortion, and I'll leave it at that.

The wickett is in your court

........Buckshot

All,

I finally had success with that bullet this past weekend. I really have been tinkering with that bullet for a while, many different loads, powders ranging from Red Dot to IMR 4064, wanting to use that boolit as a walking around load for my Model 94.

Well, I remembered that someone used 10 grains of Unique behind that bullet and was happy with it. So, I gave it a go.

Unbelievable!

Literally one ragged hole at 50 yards for 3 shots, with 2 more shots opening it to maybe 1/2 inch. This was replicated twice.

I didnt want to jinx it by grouping it at 100 yards, but spent a bunch of the PM center-massing an 8 inch gong at 50 yards and hitting with boring regularity a 14 inch gong at 175 yards.

The boolits are water quenched WW, lubed with FWFL, sized to .311. They are in Win brass, and sparked by WLR primers. No filler.

Chronoed at 1750 fps at 25 feet. ES and SD not calculated but small (ES under 20 fps for 5 shots).

Finally, watch out skunks and other vermin!

Best,

Kevin

Estimado BuckWhit, I yield to your massively medieval missive. More tugidity than illumination, but I guess you were just feeling "academic". Who am I to question the 'great galenic one'(and good natured to boot), father of the stupendous stock-splitting 236grain 8m/m boolit(albeit an outright loverin fraud).

Now, "Galenaholic Quarterly," that does have a sweet ring to it!

Think, after this truly mind-bending discourse, I'll be retiring to the scintilating simplicity of the galenic orbe for a spell. ---kid, the younger---

Aaw Paul B., don't let that grinder Buckshot get you down! Don't know what's come over him since he started prancing around as "Lord Whitworth" and done added a zip code to his handle---or maybe that's just code for some fancy Brit honorary title.

Jus, wanted to let you know that I don't mind at all you makin me look like an "idjit," cause I already am a self-admitted F.O.O.L. ---kid jethrow

Kevin in ND,

Yep, I found the fast burners to be good at 50 yards also. Unique was one of them, and, belive it or not, H-110 was another. All shot from a Contender or a Model 94 both in 30-30 caliber. BUT, accuracy didn't fair well at 100 yards. Groups opened to the 2" range. BUT, at 50 yards, this little bullet is devastatingly accurate. Sure wish it would maintain the same proportion of accuracy at 100 yards as the groups are at 50!!!...BCB

Great, now I gotta order ANOTHER Lee mould. Does this one come in a 6 banger? Maybe it'll be a good as my beloved 311316.