At what velocities will I need to start using gas checks with 100% wheel weight hardness. I.E. 357 and 44 mag. Say around 1500-1600 fps. In rifle.
I know there are a lot of variables but what is the rule of thumb?
(I suppose if they don't shoot worth a flip without the checks?)

it seems to be rifle dependent.
I got to @ 1400 in both of my 375 win's and 45/70 browning 86 before having to switch to gas checked boolits.
I have been near 1700 in my 45 colt/44mag/357 lever guns with no issues [shrug]

Thanks Lamar!

A guy by the name of Wayne Gibbs told me quite a few years back that if you matched the alloy to the application and sized the bullet correctly, a gas check was perfectly useless at velocities of less than 2000 fps. (It should be noted that this is the same Wayne Gibbs of Hensley and Gibbs fame..)

When I pressed him about why H&G cut so many gas checked moulds for handgun projectiles if that were the case, he paused a second or two, snickered a bit, and said "Well, the customer is always right."

Take that for what it is worth, but I think Mr. Gibbs was spot on.

Rae, I might be wrong because WW metal nowadays has been recycled to the point of having a lot of the "sweetness" burned out of it, but I would try the projectiles at your desired velocities and see if they lead. They may, and they may not. I just don't know how good your ww metal is. But I will offer this: I have shot my own hard cast 41s and 44s at well into the 1600s without ever using gas checks.

Appreciate it Doubless!

Sweetness is not an quantified characteristic of metal.
What you may be looking for is the velocity capability of lead alloys of a particular hardness range. That can vary by fit of the bullet to the bore, roughness of the bore rate and some other factors.

Los Angeles Silhouette Club

quote:

Sweetness is not an quantified characteristic of metal.

That's why it was in quotes... And you state "an quantified characteristic"?

Quick like rock, smart like tree.