Want to shoot only commercially available cast bullets, e.g., Oregon Trail.

Informal paper punching at a 100 yards is the activity. No hunting involved. No registered competition.

What is the best bolt action rifle cartridge for this ?

What is the best commercial bullet to use ?

Who should make the barrel ?

One simple answer:

Savage 12-BV-SS-S (nomenclature?) in 308W. It is a short action, stainless steel single shot receiver, in a 40X-style laminated stock. If you don't mind spending a grand, buy the LRPV (Long Range Precision Varminter) also in 308W. It is the ultimate in accuracy from a factory 308W. Right hand bolt, left side ejection port. Lets you sit there at the bench and load with the left hand so you keep the rifle "cheeked". Get a Savage, you can contact their Custom Shop and tell them it's for BR competition. Order thru them and have it shipped to your dealer. They will lighten the Accu-Trigger if what I hear is correct....like down to half a pound or so.

Have it bedded in Marine-Tex Epoxy with #9 shot as a filler. Spend the extra $$$ for a set of Kelbly bases and rings. Put any good 36X scope with 1/8" click values on top. Order the Redding Competition Die Set. Buy 20 pieces of Norma or RWS 308W and 358W cases, and get with Bryan at Laser-Cast to order his 30 caliber 190gr GC bullets. Measure as many as you want and see what your loaded round thickness will be. Twice the wall thickness + .3XX" (actual bullet diameter). Ideally, it would be pretty close to the chamber dimensions with the 308W brass. Weigh all 20 of each and sort them into 4 groups of 5 cases. If there is much clearance on a loaded round, try FL sizing the 358W cases and load them. Benchrest rifles generally have a loaded round diameter that is only .002" smaller than the neck diameter of the chamber. It's what they call a "tightneck" chamber. You are trying to create that cheaply. I have seen people use Norma/RWS 30-06 brass to get the loaded diameter to .002"-.003" clearance.

You have to be willing to purchase and learn how to use a case turning tool, or buddy up to somebody with a lathe and two hours to kill. You can opt to buy the Lee handheld case trimmer, and use the lathe.

First thing is to expand the test case .001"-.002" over bullet diameter and try to chamber the case. Keep stepping up with the case outside diameter until you have to force it a bit to get it to chamber. Take that case out and make a note of the OD. Do 4 or 5 and mike them all. That is a zero clearance OD. Subtract .002" from that, that will be your goal for the loaded round OD. That is a loaded round that is only .002" under chamber diameter. Some things you cannot control, but you can make sure all your cases are perfect, and so are the bullets you shoot for group. I learned this the hard(er) way in 1990 when I had a Hunter Class Benchrest Rifle built. I got into HBR with a Remington Varmint Special in 308W.

I did all this stuff to be competitive with the $2000+ custom rifles out there.

FL size the cases without an expander button in the die. That will give you cases that are only about .304"+/- or so inside measurement. Turn a mandrel to exactly bullet diameter and put it it the tail stock. Slip the case inside the Lee trimmer shell holder and tighten the case holder. Stick it in the 3-jaw chuck and make sure it is running as close to true as you can. Lube the mandrel and ease it into the case. Turn the lathe off
Run a cutter up against the case neck. You measured the case and it's OD is at that zero clearance we found. Set the cutter to take exactly .001" off the case neck. That is .002" overall. Cut it to the neck/shoulder junction.

Shut the lathe off and remove the case. That case should then be loaded with a bullet and measure exactly .002" under the zero clearance number. Repeat that for all 20 cases. Trim them to exactly .005" under max length and fire form them at at least 2100fps. 4895 is an awesome powder for the 308, as AA2495. Start at about 35 grains and work up about half a grain at a time, firing at least three, three-shot groups. Clean between groups.

Another thing, weigh all of those cast bullets, and segregate by 1/2 grain lots. Measure the OD and segregate by that as well, .001" increments. The key to cast bullet 1/2" groups at 100 yards is consistency. Start by seating a bullet too long and easing it in the chamber until the bolt closes. Take that measurement and subtract .010". That is the OAL you will set the seating die to. That clearance of .010" is called the "jump". It is the distance the bullet must "jump" to engage the rifling. That minscule amount may be varied from .001" to .020". The closeness makes sure the bullet seals the throat against gas leakage before the case mouth expands enough to let the gas get by.

This is a major pain in the --- to set up, but you only have to do the brass one time. After the first firing you will only size the case neck. With a case neck turned the same thickness all around, the brass will live forever. A case that has .001" or more wall thickness variation will "pull" brass from the thinnest spot and end up curving it out of round and eventually splitting the case neck at that spot.

This set up should reward you with groups 1/2" or smaller consistently every time out, if you can learn to read wind and mirage conditions. It works, I finished 7th my first full year in the TCL HBR matches, nationwide, and placed in the Top Five at every match I shot in for more than two years.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Thank you Rich for such a complete answer. Appreciate it.

Any advantage to going to a smaller capacity cartridge, e.g., a 30 BR ?

Hammer

Informal paper punching from the bench or what? Not sure going through all that is suggested by Idaho Sharpshooter is necessary for "informal" shooting. If you're looking for a factory rifle then try to find a Winchester M70 in .308 either sporter or target/varmint (whichever floats your boat). They will have a 1-12" twist barrel which will be better than a 10" twist barrel. If you have the money get any standard action and have it rebarreled with a 26-28" Palma barrel with 1-14" twist chambered with a tight match chamber in .308. That combination of case capcity with slow powders and commercial 170+ gr cast bullets will give the best accuracy. The sights are your choice depending on the type of shooting and accuracy you expect. Loading cast bullets for best accuracy at a decent velocity requires loading techniques not necessary with jacketed bullets. You'll need to learn those also.

Any M70, M700, Savage 110/112 bolt action will do. There are several good barrel makers. Get one with no more than 6 lands and grooves with a 14" twist in .30 cal. Several commercial makers offer good cast rifle bullets. You'd have to try the various bullets to find out which your rifle will shoot the best.

Larry Gibson

thirty seconds in the Cast Bullet Association Record Book in "Production Class" will put any thoughts of any rifle (okay, under $2000) except the Savage out of your mind. If the best is also the least expensive...why even consider anything else. With $3.65 diesel here in Idaho, danged if I am going to drive 16 miles to shoot off a concrete bench and not have the best chance at shooting several consecutive 5-shot groups at 200yds under an inch. The Savage will do that without a lot of monkey-monkey. Check out the CBA website and just ask their opinion.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

I am going to drive 16 miles to shoot off a concrete bench and not have the best chance at shooting several consecutive 5-shot groups at 200yds under an inch.

Idaho, That sounds pretty "informal" to me.......

Hammer

Take a look at castboolits.gunloads.com and you'll see there are informal cast bullet shooters shooting cast bullets out of most any rifle.

Larry Gibson

Hmmmmm, well back to the range and some refining. I believe with a little work Idaho, I could probably do that with my 6.5 AR15. I'll have to agree with Larry, I know I myself have some ordinary rifles that could probably do that. Too bad there's not one of those shoots in my neck of the woods.

Joe

I would scrounge up a Remington 788 in 30-30
for your proposed shooting.

Interesting disussion, and I'd ask a few more questions. How accurate do you want the rifle to be. Are you only punching paper, or also rocks, etc?

The only calibers I'd consider when constrained to factory bullets are 30 and 35 caliber, and even when it comes to casting, I'd still stick with those calibers due to available molds.

Let's say you stick with 30 caliber, and that's about as good a choice as they come. Either the .308 or 30-30 are the way to go. The 30-30 case capicity is likely a better match, but you'll find .308's tend to be built to tighter tollerances.

The mention of the 30 br is a good choice, but, you simply won't be able to get all it has to offer by limiting yourself to factory cast bullets. To really eak out what cast bullets have to offer, you have to tailer the bullets to the gun. Not that a custom built 30 br wouldn't be a great way to go, but you're limiting yourself. I'd say with the money put into a 30 br, you'd be better off getting a good factory .308 and putting the money saved into a casting setup.

Depending on barrel twist rate, and limiting yourself to factory bullets, I'd say you need to limit your velocity to 2000-2200 fps for best accuracy, and under that limitation, a .308 has a greater than ideal case capacity.

I'll have to agree with Paul H, if you really want accuracy, or for that matter, good results, you really need to start casting. Not saying there aren't some good commercial cast bullets out there, but there are a lot of lemons too. Nothing like having full control of your cast bullet and you get that when you cast them yourself.

Joe

Any decent rifle chambered in 30-06 or 308 Win is a good place to start. With the right load you'll have lots of fun. I've found that bullet diameter is one of the more important factors when it comes to accurate cast bullet shooting.

What we are seeing here are opinions, some based in fact, some more of a "warm fuzzy feeling".

It depends on what you define as acceptable, and repeatable on demand, accuracy.

If you just want to fart around every now and then, it doesn't matter what you use.

My recommendation is based on what is the best, most cost-effective choice.

Everybody here has a neighbor who's cousin's hairdresser's paperboy's Mother's boyfriend knows a guy who bought a stock _____________________ and that dang thing shoots 3/8" groups with his home cast bullets every time out at 100 yds. Oh, yeah, 4X Weaver scope. The group must be measured with a ruler...the record books don't show any groups measured in fractions of an inch.

I actually have a Savage like I described earlier, except it has not been bedded yet. It is wearing Kelbly rings and bases, and a B&L 36X Target Scope with FCH. I just got the rifle this May, and I have been rather busy with the 550 and 577 Gibbs-based Magnum wildcats, and playing around with my 505 Gibbs. I cast the Lyman 311332 and 311284 bullets, WW+1% tin. Both are single cavity moulds, and I rotate them at 750degrees in a Lyman Magdipper. I ladle. The 311332 gets culled anything under 192, and over 194. The 311284 gets culled under 208 and over 210. Within that I sort by .5gr, and 90% are under one grain in a casting session. I use Taurak lube. Both bullets cast out at .3105" and I lube with a .311 honed out sizer from Stillwell Machine. I am fussy to the anal point about my CB rifles when I am playing the accuracy game. On a decent day for wind and mirage the rifle is good for .630" five shot groups, +/- .050". I load at the range and use a CPS (Neil Jones) measure.

This guy doesn't sound like he is quite that serious at this point, but we all know how that works...first group that measures in the low .7's and he's done. The first one under .5" and it's all over. If he buys the 12BS-SS-S in the laminated stock just paying attention will keep groups under an inch, and his accuracy quest will not take him past the Savage's capabilities. If it does, he is at the stage where he gets a BR stock, a custom barrel, and chambers in 30BR. By that time he is also buying an arbor press and Wilson bushing dies.

It took me five years of trying to make a silk purse out of a Sow's ear. I know Alan Hall, and have owned several of his actions over the years. The Savage is as good, until you get to the stage where you expect sub-.300" groups at 100 yds.

The Savage will get him there...

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

If he only wants to shoot factory cast bullets
he does not want sub .300 groups.
If he wants .300 groups he might start by learning to shoot them with jacketed bullets.

ireload2,

check the records for Production Class in the CBA.
A Savage HB in 308W has them all.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

I got an Email from the CBA membership director about an hour ago...his buddy won the 2007 CBA National Championship with one of the Savages. Lucky dude, huh? The record is .575" for 10 (!) shots at 100 yards.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Idaho,

That's darn nice shooting for cast. Whether someone asks me my advice of what rifle gives the biggest bang for the buck, I always say Savage. All the years I've followed the normal big four rifle companies (Winchester, Remington, Savage, and Ruger) there was a long period there where Remington made some outstandingly accurate barrels and consequently rifles. Savages always seems to be pretty accurate. I have to believe that barrel nuts systems has a lot to do with there accuracy.

That fellow here wanting to shoot factory casts wouldn't do bad even with the run of the mill Savage hunting rifles and I'd go with the 308 in that case.

He really needs to start casting or get a friend that does to help him along.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
ireload2,

check the records for Production Class in the CBA.
A Savage HB in 308W has them all.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Most folks can't shoot .300 groups with jacketed bullets and bench rest rifle without the aid of a key board.

You mean one guy shooting one rifle?
Does he work for Savage?

First of all I don't like Savages and I don't like .308s. You are welcome to my share of each.

Let's try and keep it civil

While no doubt there are some fine production rifles, capable of amazing accuracy, I would be highly suprised if that level of accuracy was attained with an over the counter factory cast bullet.

Factory cast bullets can offer a reasonably inexspensive way to plink, but if you want good to great accuracy with cast bullets, expect to cast, inspect, size, lube and load them yourself. If you want exceptional accuracy with over the counter bullets, go with jacketed bullets.

The .308 is one of the better choices for a factory cast bullet gun, due mostly to most of them being machined to fairly tight tollerances.

Ireload2,

are you cross with me or Savage or the 308 cartridge? In this case we are not talking about what somebody doesn't like, or how they feel, or what they hear. This is a gentleman who wants to test the waters with a quality cast bullet by Laser-Cast, and what rifle might be best to start with.

Fact One: the Savage Accu-Trigger is the best factory trigger available in a factory rifle.

Fact Two: the savage short action single shot rifle in either the synthetic or laminated stock is consistently
THE most accurate factory rifle sold in the US for less than $1500.

Fact Three: the 308 Winchester is one of the most intrinsically accurate cartridges in the world; and is the most
accurate factory loaded cartridge in Cast Bullet Assn. competition. Their record books bear this out.

Fact Four: there are not many companies offering cast rifle bullets. I have shot the Laser-Cast for a couple
years now, and in two different 308 Win Savages they shoot sub-moa at 100 yards. I would suggest his
buying 500 of the 190gr GC bullets and sorting them by weight in 1/2gr increments. At 2200fps of
slower, they WILL shoot sub-moa, and I suggest H4894 or AA2495.

I hope life gets better for you...

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Hammer, if you are not going to be trying to set any new records, I would find a BPCR and start there. The .45-70 and .40-65 were both designed around lead and black, and there are guys out there that can shoot incredibly small groups using black and cast lead. Yes you will have to cast yourself, but that is part of the fun. Take a look at BPCR, maybe even look at the NEF .38-55, and see if that is something you would like to try. They are very reasonable, and pretty darned accurate off the shelf rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Hammer:
Want to shoot only commercially available cast bullets, e.g., Oregon Trail.

Informal paper punching at a 100 yards is the activity. No hunting involved. No registered competition.

What is the best bolt action rifle cartridge for this ?

What is the best commercial bullet to use ?

Who should make the barrel ?

The original question was, "What is the best bolt action rifle cartridge for this?"

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by Hammer:
Want to shoot only commercially available cast bullets, e.g., Oregon Trail.

Informal paper punching at a 100 yards is the activity. No hunting involved. No registered competition.

What is the best bolt action rifle cartridge for this ?

What is the best commercial bullet to use ?

Who should make the barrel ?

The original question was, "What is the best bolt action rifle cartridge for this?"

Does a .30-30 not qualify in the 788?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Ireload2,

are you cross with me or Savage or the 308 cartridge? In this case we are not talking about what somebody doesn't like, or how they feel, or what they hear. This is a gentleman who wants to test the waters with a quality cast bullet by Laser-Cast, and what rifle might be best to start with.

Fact One: the Savage Accu-Trigger is the best factory trigger available in a factory rifle.

Fact Two: the savage short action single shot rifle in either the synthetic or laminated stock is consistently
THE most accurate factory rifle sold in the US for less than $1500.

Fact Three: the 308 Winchester is one of the most intrinsically accurate cartridges in the world; and is the most
accurate factory loaded cartridge in Cast Bullet Assn. competition. Their record books bear this out.

Fact Four: there are not many companies offering cast rifle bullets. I have shot the Laser-Cast for a couple
years now, and in two different 308 Win Savages they shoot sub-moa at 100 yards. I would suggest his
buying 500 of the 190gr GC bullets and sorting them by weight in 1/2gr increments. At 2200fps of
slower, they WILL shoot sub-moa, and I suggest H4894 or AA2495.

I hope life gets better for you...

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Idaho,
He is a beginner asking questions about shooting cast bullets. As such what happens in the CBA has little relevance to a beginner. he specifically excluded competition. I suspect that almost NO CBA shooters use Laser cast bullets in competition. Knowing cast bullet shooters I doubt that many of them would admit to using any store bought bullets.
He would do well to try the Cast Boolits site or the Yahoo cast bullets group for additional information.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:

quote:

Originally posted by craigster:

quote:

Originally posted by Hammer:
Want to shoot only commercially available cast bullets, e.g., Oregon Trail.

Informal paper punching at a 100 yards is the activity. No hunting involved. No registered competition.

What is the best bolt action rifle cartridge for this ?

What is the best commercial bullet to use ?

Who should make the barrel ?

The original question was, "What is the best bolt action rifle cartridge for this?"

Does a .30-30 not qualify in the 788?

Sounds like a good choice to me.

OK! Go down to the nearest Cabela's and order him a new 788 in 30-30. Oh, they stopped making those twenty-something years ago...dang.

OK! Go down to the nearest Cabela's and order him a new 12BV or FV SS in 308 Win. Oh, got three on the rack...

He wants to buy a rifle and shoot some cast bullets in it. He does not say he is interested in spending five or six hundred dollars to get into casting his own bullets as of NOW!!! He just wants to buy a good, accurate rifle; and the Savage is what the serious guys use shooting cast bullets. If he gets the bug, he can go to matches and have some fun. If he just wants to drive to the range and shoot half a dozen five-shot groups that look like groups not patterns...the Savage in 308 is the best factory rifle out there.

If a guy walks into the Dodge dealership and wants a fast road car, it doesn't mean he wants something that can qualify on the second row at Daytona...sell him a new 2008 SRT-8 Hemi Charger. Don't sell him what he doesn't want or need.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

I would recommend an 8mm mauser, 30-06 or 308 of whatever model you prefer.

When I looked into shooting cast bullets I went with a 35 Whelan. Literally thousands of avail. bullets both for handgun and rifle. Some are pretty cheap too. I now have a few rifles shooting cast, but prefer the 35's still. Several combinations of powder/bullet work with vel. from about 1100 to 2200 or so. The best I have ever got cast to shoot is about 1" or slightly under. Now my grandsons have a pair of 35 Brown/Whelans. They shoot them year round using cast in the gopher patch and NorthForks for moose and elk hunting. I would guess there are 1500 rd. thru those rifles, mostly 158gr. cast with various powders. Cheap fun shooting. To each their own though. Mark

I read Rich's recommendations rather carefully. I believe they are good advice for a casual shooter, AND for a shooter who takes the next step, which is a little, not particularly-serious, competition.

The first shooter to win the CBA Grand National Championship with a legitimate, completely stock Savage .308 production rifle in what we might call "the modern era" I believe was Virgil Edwards of Sandy, Oregon. I can't recall offhand whether the year was 2000 or 2001. Anyway, he WAS shooting a 100% completely stock Savage rifle, in the Production Class.

I do believe I may have had some minor role in getting Virgil to use that rifle INSTEAD OF a Remington 788 or Model 700, which were the dominant CBA Production Class rifles at that time. I arranged for the Savage VP of Marketing to talk to Virgil, and give him a deal on the rifle...and I did some of the talking to get Virg to use it.

He campaigned it all that season, and set many national records with it.

Of course, he was not shooting commercial bullets, but ones he cast himself to suit his rifle.

That brings us from cartridges to bullets. My own opinion is that a man is very likely wasting his time and money if trying to get commercially cast rifle bullets, made by anyone, to shoot consistently well in an unaltered rifle.

The bullet diameter MUST match the throat diameter of the rifle to get really good consistent accuracy. Because of safety considerations and manufacturing tolerances, that can usually only be done by either making the bullets to fit the individual rifle's throat, or modifying the rifle to fit the bullets. Rich's suggestion of modifying the cartridge cases IS a good one IF a person is only going to "plink" with the bullets, but as Rich said, his first three or four sub-3/4" groups will probably bring that "plinking is good enough" view to an abrupt end.

Could go on and on here, but will sum up by saying this. If you want to really have fun using today's production sporter rifles & cast bullets:

1. Start with the .308 cartridge, with either a 1-11" or (less desirable) a 1-12" twist.

2. Get a Savage bolt rifle with the Accu-trigger (so that later, when you go to .30-BR or .30 PPC, it can be an inexpensive, easy, at home barrel change)

3. Buy yourself a cheap bullet casting outfit (Lee brand springs to mind) which lets you cast gas-checked bullets of .311" or larger, and sizing/lube dies of .309", .310", and .311" internal diameter (so you can experiment to find out what your rifle actually likes).

4. Your mould should likely cast bullets of 180 grains or heavier. Heavy bullets in .308 fly through cross-winds much better than than relatively light bullets which might be better suited to a 1-14" twist. This is especially true when you shoot at 200-yard targets.

My friends and I, who between us have won several National Championships and set many, many cast bullet National Records, have all ended up using .30 bullets of 196 to 215 grs weight for that very advantage in the wind.

I'm sure other folks have other opinions and other experiences. These are MY recommendations.

you've been spending too much time at the range in Springfield, haven't you? My Savage and I will be there next spring and summer...

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Actually Rich, I haven't been to the Springfield range since 2001. Have had some strokes and other health problems which make it too tough to travel very far to shoot anymore, especially since they moved the starting time for the matches at Emerald Empire to where I'd have to get up at 4:30 a.m. to get there in time to shoot....

If you'll let me know when you plan to be there, I'd be pleased to come up and "jaw" with you a bit though....might even buy you a beer.

had to test my own post. Took the Savage 12-BV-SS-S, single shot, stainless action and fluted 26" barrel, laminated stock. 36X B&L 4200 scope. NEI DD mould , close copy of the Lyman 311332 200gr spitzer. 29.5gr of AA2495 (same-same, H4895 I believe, based on testing). 1947fps average for five, five-shot groups. Five group aggregate: .783" at 100 yards.
It works for me, the rest of you need to test and post your own data this week, not just speculate.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

What happened to your Laser cast bullets?
As far as the 788 goes sometimes you do have to put out a little effort and spend a little money to get what you want, but I am sure you can find one cheaper than the Savage. I have heard that some folks have decent results with that other Savage,the 340, in 30-30 but I would not know I have not owned one in 25 years. There is nothing wrong with picking up a M700 Varmint chambered in 308. Very accurate and an excellent trigger.
I am sure that a used bench rest rifle in 308 could be scrounged up or even a 40X Remington if you are happy with a .308.
BTW the best cast shooting I have seen was by a guy named Norman Johnson using a heavy barreled 1917 Enfield chambered for a round that looked like the .30 Herrett with a long neck. It is fully documented in Handloader Magazine.

The best group I ever shot was with a 320 grain NEI gas check bullet designed for the 405 Win. It cast at .410 and was lubed in a .410 die. Gas checks were Lyman. It was 10 shots into 1.05" at 100 meters from a 1885 Browning BPCR with the factory sights... no scope and no modified trigger. Rifle is as is right out of the box.
The powder charge was 22 grains of 4759.
Primer Federal #210 brass is reformed Remington 45-70.

I have a CZ550 American model, special order from the Bill Hicks & Co. They had some made up in 30-06 and 270. I got the 30-06. Anyways with the Lyman 311284 or the Lyman 314299 and various powders, it shoots under an inch at 100 yards in the 1990 fps bracket easily. I sure didn't pay what they want for a Savage. That's not the only rifle I have that shoots like that either. Going to a surplus rifle, I have one of the unissued Yugo 48B 8x57 Mausers. I have receiver sights on it and I'm not even going to tell you what that baby shoots at 100 yards with the Lee 175 gr bullet and surplus 844 powder.

Joe

I was at Laser-Cast a week ago, and Brian was out of them. The backorder is over 4,000 so somebody is shooting them. They sold over 100,000 of them in 2007 so far, and one more run in a week or two. They are labor intensive, those gas checks have to be put on by hand; one at a time and sized/lubed.

I've shot 5-shot groups under an inch at 100 yards with two different 300WM's over 2000fps with the "Silver Bullets", and the current Savage 308 will shoot in the .7-.8" range for me on a consistent basis. WCC-844 and 846 are both good in the 308 at about 2000fps.

Ireload2, they still aren't making 788's anymore, and the CBA Nationals Equipment Lists do not show any as far as I can see. It looks like Savage about 80% in Production Class. I'm going to get an FT in 308 and see if I can get to 1/2" in time for the NT2008 in Kansas City.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

No speculation here. Pure stock Savage 110 Syn. 30-06, Lee C309/200/R, 23.0 gr 5744 @ 1620 fps-slow plinker load, 4x redfield scope- old steel from 70's, fired at 100 yds from outers varminter rest-.660" 5 shot group.

Little explanation on 844 and 846 powder. The military found out that 844 had a variance. That is some lots were faster then specs and some were slower then specs. They found out that one of the variances was better suited for 308 use. Thus that variance was made into 846. The left over lots that had that variance in the 844 powder were then relegated to tracers.

swheeler wanted me to post the target picture to his post above. Here it is.

Joe

Here's a bigger picture of that target. Sorry about the small one.

Joe

Thanks Joe

quote:

Informal paper punching at a 100 yards is the activity. No hunting involved. No registered competition.

What is the best bolt action rifle cartridge for this ?

What is the best commercial bullet to use ?

Hammer; pick a 30 cal rifle in a poplar cal that you can get dies and brass for, do a little load developement and have fun. As for the commercial cast bullets, You could give Garners(sp) Cache a look, he has a good selection of Lyman and RCBS designs. Maybe read Frank Marshall, Jr Speaking Frankly- The 30-06 is an Oldie but a Goodie. If and when you get into casting your own you may want a different caliber, I have a couple 8mm that shoot cast really good, you may also find ringing steel @ 300 yds fun. Whatever caliber you decide on, you will be hooked on cast for the rest of your life.