BTW,this 458WM shoots the same size groups at 50yds off the bench as I shoot offhand.

I was actually going to ask if you could shoot a target off the bench to show us just how good a group your load was capable of but you seem have answered that question.

Unless I have misinterpreted your statement "BTW,this 458WM shoots the same size groups at 50yds off the bench as I shoot offhand" I find that hard to believe.
If that is true then your bench shooting or load is crap or you could be an Olympic champion in offhand shooting events, except using a load that did group.

I would expect a 50m group of a good cast load with properly sized bullets, suitable powder and non-fouled barrel to have bullet holes touching or near to touching, similar to targets below showing what my 404 is and cast loads are capable of off the bench. I have seen similar groups from other shooters using cast bullets too.

It shot my cast loads much more accurate early on, then after firing many rounds out of a hot barrel, say 1000 rds, groups opened up.This rifle has around 3000 rounds through it and has stopped shooting or grouping jacketed and monometal bullets a long time ago.I should have said it shoots about the same size groups offhand and off the bench at 50yds if you neglect some of the offhand shooting errors.The first target posted on this thread shows how the rifle grouped at 50 and 100yds off the bench(three shot groups circled in yellow)

"I would expect a 50m group of a good cast load with properly sized bullets, suitable powder and non-fouled barrel to have bullet holes touching or near to touching, similar to targets below showing what my 404 is and cast loads are capable of off the bench. I have seen similar groups from other shooters using cast bullets too."

Are you implying that a rifle should shoot like it does when the bore is in very good condition, forever? Again,I showed you what it was capable of in the first target posted on this thread.That said I have shot offhand groups at 50yds identical to the one you posted with my 458 and 308 many times and I am far from being an olympic or excellent shooter.

Have you tried shooting your Accurate Moulds bullets with gas checks? My 404 will not shoot plain base bullets with any sort of accuracy but shoots groups like I show in the photos when I put a gas check on.

I have only ever used Lyman No 2 or equivalent recipe lead mix but some say a softer lead performs better in a worn barrel as it engraves better with worn lands. Your off-hand groups are certainly good enough for hunting at closer range.

I don't shoot off-hand much apart from at game if I cannot find a suitable rest, but when I have shot my cast offhand I can generally keep them in a small circle at 50m but certainly not near as good as when shooting off the bench.

Do you notice if your first shots in a shooting string are more accurate on a cold barrel and then accuracy drops away as the barrel heats. Perhaps your bullet lube is not retained long enough on the bullets during passage down a very hot barrel with accuracy suffering as a result of leading?
Don't know why you want to shoot long strings until your barrel 'overheats' but I guess you are having fun and can afford to re-barrel when you wish.
I would never do that on my Mauser 404.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
Have you tried shooting your Accurate Moulds bullets with gas checks? My 404 will not shoot plain base bullets with any sort of accuracy but shoots groups like I show in the photos when I put a gas check on.

I have only ever used Lyman No 2 or equivalent recipe lead mix but some say a softer lead performs better in a worn barrel as it engraves better with worn lands. Your off-hand groups are certainly good enough for hunting at closer range.

I don't shoot off-hand much apart from at game if I cannot find a suitable rest, but when I have shot my cast offhand I can generally keep them in a small circle at 50m but certainly not near as good as when shooting off the bench.

Do you notice if your first shots in a shooting string are more accurate on a cold barrel and then accuracy drops away as the barrel heats. Perhaps your bullet lube is not retained long enough on the bullets during passage down a very hot barrel with accuracy suffering as a result of leading?
Don't know why you want to shoot long strings until your barrel 'overheats' but I guess you are having fun and can afford to re-barrel when you wish.
I would never do that on my Mauser 404.

All of my bullets have gas checks aside from the ones I shoot in my hand gun.I've shot about 3000 gas check bullets so far this year.

I use RCBS rifle bullet lube.I am sure all goes to shit when I shoot 50 rds of 458WM without cleaning.Sometimes I start shooting and all is well and accurate.I'll leave the barrel to cool for half hour then when I start shooting again it does not shoot as well as it did before I let it cool.

"Don't know why you want to shoot long strings until your barrel 'overheats' but I guess you are having fun and can afford to re-barrel when you wish.
I would never do that on my Mauser 404."

This is a training rifle.

Here is a three shot group from rest and off the bench using 30grs of Accurate 5744.I also tried 20grs of Unique but the round keyholed.It seems that 5744 shoots better than the H4895 I tested right after that gave a group about 2X larger.The 5744 does not leave black soot on my cases like the H4895.I think I will switch to A5744 for my 458.It could be that the Unique load was too fast as I had to aim about 7 inches low so it would shoot around the bullseye.I think I will reduce the charge and try it again.Accurate 5744 is made in Canada!

[URL= ]50yds off the bench [/URL]