Since the mid 1970's I have always cast my bullets out of pure linotype.

However;
Several years ago a fella gave me several pieces of what I call lead pipe. It is about 4" in diameter and maybe 2.5 to 3 feet long.

It appears to be almost pure lead, what many call Chemical lead. Any other ideas, on what it could be??

Also what would be a good combination, by weight, to mix it with Linotype to make bullets that will take up to 1200 fps, no gas checks?

the phone company used millions of pounds for cable sheathing. IMHO, this is what you have.

About a 5:2 alloy of the sheathing to type will make fine bullets.

if it's chemical pipe it generally contains 3% antimony allready.
if it's water pipe it's pure soft.
i have some that's 5" pipe that's pure.
too bad too, i was hoping it had antimony in it so i could swage some bullet cores with ,for controlled opening hunting bullets.
it's fine as is for other uses,and i can alway's add antimony to it.

if it's pure then a 3 parts soft to 1 part linotype will make a nice alloy.
in fact i just made some of that today for a revolver alloy.

Alloyed lead is alloyed lead and the only thing you can do is add
more alloying metal to it.

But PURE, dead soft, lead is highly prized by muzzleloaders.

If you have no use for soft lead I'd trade it to someone
who needs soft lead

Lead pipe? Most of the lead pipe I run across is old drain pipe. Waste, drain, and vent. It's as pure lead as they could get back in the old days.

I mix pure lead with Lynotype and 50-50 to make Lyman #2.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
Lead pipe? Most of the lead pipe I run across is old drain pipe. Waste, drain, and vent. It's as pure lead as they could get back in the old days.

I mix pure lead with Lynotype and 50-50 to make Lyman #2.

Mike that's not exactly true.
Linotype - 3 pounds
Wheel weights - 9 pounds
Tin Antimony Lead
1.4% 6% 92.7%
Add 2% tin. Close to Lyman # 2 alloy

or:
Linotype - 2 pounds
Wheel weights - 5 pounds - 3% Tin
Tin Antimony Lead
4.5% 6.3% 89.2%
Nearly Lyman # 2 BHN.

or:
Clip-on Wheel weights - 9 pounds
Linotype - 2 pounds / Virgin bar tin - 7 ounces
Tin Antimony Lead
4.9% 4.45% 90.65%
Lyman # 2 Alloy duplicate

or:
Wheel Weights - 9 pounds
50/50 bar solder - 1 pound
Tin Antimony Lead
5% 3% 92%
Close to Lyman # 2 Alloy

According to Lyman's 46th manual (4th edition 1986). Page 162.

4 pounds Linotype
1 pound of 50-50
5 pounds of pure lead

Makes 10 pounds of Lyman Number 2. 90% Lead-5% Tin-5% Antimony

In the manual they only refer to it as #2 Alloy. It really doesn't matter, that's the alloy I use for bullets.

A word of caution with lead pipe. I always SPLIT IN ALONG ITS LENGTH to form two "U" channel sections.

I had a steam explosion with uncut lead pipe as it can get condensation on the inside of the pipe and then "blows off".

Be especially careful if bring it into a warm casting area from a cold outside...if you split it then it is safe.

This is not old lead pipe.

It was brand new, and there was a phone company connection.

So what is the composition of "phone company", "lead pipe"???

And what would be the proper mixture, by weight, for good bullets using ONLY this lead pipe and linotype?

Why don't you melt some of it mold a few bullets see how they turn out.

I can tell by "handling" it, it would be way too soft for bullets the way it is.
I am pretty sure it is what is called phone company cable sheathing.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I can tell by "handling" it, it would be way too soft for bullets the way it is.
I am pretty sure it is what is called phone company cable sheathing.

Mix it 50/50 with clip on wheel weights. If you want water drop it to harden it. Let age minimum of two weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
This is not old lead pipe.

It was brand new, and there was a phone company connection.

So what is the composition of "phone company", "lead pipe"???

And what would be the proper mixture, by weight, for good bullets using ONLY this lead pipe and linotype?

From this site:
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Commonly Used Bullet Alloys

For an industry description of common lead alloys use this link - Then Click on "Grades of Lead" Alloy

-Wheel Weights, clip-on >1/2-1% tin, 2-3% antimony, 96-7.25% lead, 1/4% arsenic

-Foundry Type >15% tin, 23% antimony, 62% lead

-Wheel Weights,stick-on >Pure lead or nearly so

-Scrap range lead >Could be (and is) anything

-Linotype >4% tin, 12% antimony, 84% lead

-Plumbers lead >99%+ pure lead.

-Monotype >9% tin, 19% antimony, 72% lead.

-Lyman's No. 2 >5% tin, 5% antimony, 90% lead.


Alloy calculator form this site:
http://castboolits.gunloads.co...ad-alloy-calculators

You can play around with the calculator to get an idea what you are going to end up with..
Personally I would try to strike a balance between the tin and antimony % wise so as to cut down on brittleness and antimony wash..
I can't help you beyond that because I screwed up when I tried to download the above calculator and Adobe Reader doesn't give me a way to correct my download mistake..

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I can tell by "handling" it, it would be way too soft for bullets the way it is.
I am pretty sure it is what is called phone company cable sheathing.

According to the XRF machine I have access to, most alloys I test are contaminated with small amounts of copper and/or zinc. I find if you can scratch the lead (some what deep) with your finger nail, it's pretty close to pure. From there you can start using the internet alloy Mix recipes.

I would take your pipe and start making Lyman #2 out of it.

quote:

I would take your pipe and start making Lyman #2 out of it.

I wouldn't, but it isn't anything personal, and no disrespect intended... Lyman #2 alloy is 90/5/5. That means it has 5% tin in it. Anything more than 2% is a pure waste, and with tin currently running anywhere from $25-$40/lb, it doesn't take long to waste a lot of money.

My method isn't scientific, but it works: I would start with 60% lino and add 40% pipe metal; melt, flux, flux again, and cast. See how the bullet fills out. If it fills well, see how hard it is. If too soft, water quench, size immediately and let sit, as has been mentioned. If it is too hard, add pipe metal.

In short, experiment; chances are your melt won't change enough between batches to cause any significant issues, if you keep records of what you use and do the same thing consistently.

And lastly, good luck finding any old style wheelweights with much tin in them at all. Most of the ones I have gotten hold of have had the tin burned out of them long ago. I currently use about 3# of lino to 17# of wheelweight metal. The metal flows well, the moulds fill well, the metal is hard enough (but not too hard), and the projectiles are beautiful.

Almost all commercial bullet metal I have ever seen was so darned hard it was virtually useless except for alloying, and then you have to add tin. GRRRRR!!!

Application is everything, but go back and read what Elmer and those of his ilk did with 1:16 alloy.

Thanks for the information guys.

At first, I cast with wheel weights. I actually worked at a gas station, and had friends at gas stations and tire shops and got ALL the wheel weights for FREE I needed for my dad and I. WE shot Bullseye Competiton.

Then one day my dad showed up with a coupel of hundred pounds of Linotype. This was actually in the form of Type, in strips and you could read what they had printed.

Well this linotype made excellent hard bullets, very accurate in the 1911 target handguns we shot.

I used this stuff for a few years, we had a scrap metal yard that would save it for us.

Then I made friends at two print shops and they would sell me Linotype in the 22 to 24 lb triangular bars, made for use in type setting machines. I have used this since.
I have a fair amount of it and a fair amount of the lead pipe on hand. As any experienced caster knows you do not really need linotype hard bullets for most applications, and as has been stated anything much over 2% tin is not needed to fill out the mold and is now a waste of money.

So this is my reason for my questions.

My plan is to cast a bunch of this stuff into smaller ignots, and then blend them into ignots to use for "regular" bullets. I still want my bullets to be fairly hard, as the bullets I cast I use in my more powerful loads, I buy commercial cast bullets for my plinking/practice loads.

But I figure I might as well shoot up my lead supply before I die.

In some older stuff I have rfead I have even heard of using the lead pipe and Lino at 50/50, but I think that would be a little soft for what I want.

You can make a hard bullet from a softer alloy by either oven heat treating them or water dropping them right from the mold.

Lino may be okay for punching paper but that is it. Because of it's high alloy content it will also grey streak the bore making you think it's leading it bad. It's really better to alloy it and that makes your supply go further.

Have you gone to that website that gives a pretty good run down on alloys and how to make them?

quote:

quote:
I would take your pipe and start making Lyman #2 out of it.



I wouldn't, but it isn't anything personal, and no disrespect intended... Lyman #2 alloy is 90/5/5. That means it has 5% tin in it. Anything more than 2% is a pure waste

Doubless, nothing taken personally. Sometimes you make alloys to make a weight, not just hardness. Sometime you have to waste a little tin in the process.

quote:

Sometimes you make alloys to make a weight, not just hardness. Sometime you have to waste a little tin in the process.

Agreed, and absolutely correct.

I am thinking, that the next time I do a big casting session that I will mix my "lead pipe" and my Linotype 75% Lino, 25% pipe, or 60% Lino, 40% "pipe".

I've been using the 60 Lino, 40 lead (pipe) mix for a while now, works well.

9 pounds Clip-on Wheel Weight (which are about pure lead) and 2 pounds of Linotype/ Virgin bar tin-7 ounces.

Tin Antimony Lead
4.9% 4.45% 90.65%

Duplicates Lyman #2 Alloy

Why do you feel the need to have almost 5% tin in your alloy, when all it does is waste tin? An alloy of 2%-2.5% tin will fill moulds wonderfully.

I would add that when Lyman decided on their #2 alloy mix that all three metals were dirt cheap. In fact, so were sticks of 50/50 solder as recently as 10 years ago. Not so today!

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Why do you feel the need to have almost 5% tin in your alloy, when all it does is waste tin? An alloy of 2%-2.5% tin will fill moulds wonderfully.

I would add that when Lyman decided on their #2 alloy mix that all three metals were dirt cheap. In fact, so were sticks of 50/50 solder as recently as 10 years ago. Not so today!

I don't Doubless, I never ever go over 2 % . That formula is from the LASC page.

There are always people with wheel weights that would be happy to trade for pure lead.