I have been trying to work up a load for my Enfield .30/06 using 165 gr plain base cast bullets. So far I have tried 16 gr H 2400, 12 gr Blue dot, 10 Gr. Trail Boss, 25 Gr. H4895, and 30 gr. H4895. Nothing shoots worth a flip. I have some Universal and wonder if about 8 or 10 gr would be worth trying. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Bullets are BNH 18 according to manufacturer.

When you start playing with cast in a rifle, all the rules change... I suspect you already know that.

Here are the things I would look at:

1) does the nose of the bullet ride the bore? In other words, is it AT LEAST .301" and maybe even .303? If the nose is smaller than the top of the lands the nose is going to wobble heading down the barrel and inaccuracy is assured.

2) Is the bullet up tight against the lands? Typically cast bullets don't like to jump at all. That is why a lot of the real pros breach seat their bullets, then push the case in behind the projectile.

3) Are the bullets sized to the diameter of the base of the grooves and probably not any larger than .003" or so at most?

4) Finally, C. E. Harris recommended 13 grains of Unique behind the Lyman 311291. I think that is probably a good jumping off point.

Good luck. Let us know. (And if I said too much, I sincerely apologize. It wasn't meant as an insult.)

My advice is to start at bullet size.
You can slug your bore and measure or just start at .309, 310 and my two love .311 up to .313 bullets. Would almost bet money that your bullet is too small for your bore. If your buying them, most likely at .309.
I load 21.5 grains of SR 4759 with Dacron down on the powder. from 200 grains to 220 grains on the bullets, gas checked and fairly soft, Wheel weight metal BHN or so maybe 12, softer than yours. I use a lot of Lee Liquid Alox over the in the groove supplied lube and get good to great results.
Best regards,

Gentlemen, I believe you have hit on the answer. I just measured these bullets and they are .309 as the mfg. says at the base, but the nose end of the bullet is .299. Considering that I am using an Enfield almost 100 years old, I would guess that the bullets are much too small. The nose portion is about 1/2 the total length (.465) from the crimp groove to the end. It has 3 driving bands with 2 grease grooves and a bevel base. I wondered if perhaps they would shoot better loaded base first (nose down) in the case? Otherwise I am just out the cost of the bullets. Do you think I should try loading a little heavier and see if this would help? Appreciate any suggestions anyone can give. Thanks.

I meant to say also that this rifle shoots jacketed bullets very well. I usually use moderate loads with 125, 130 and 150 gr. and the accuracy is quite good, in the 1.5 to 2 inch range at 100 yds. The cast bullets are coming in at about 6 inches at 25 yards.

I suspect you are correct: that the noses of the bullets are too small. And: shooting cast after shooting jacketed bullets requires a significant amount of barrel scrubbing to make sure all the copper is gone. If that barrel has copper in it and you are trying to shoot cast you are destined for trouble...

Unless you still have a thousand of them...I would set them aside for another project. Find some larger ones including "nose riding" and +.002 on the .308, maybe more, groove. Bevel base leaves no flat base for the heaver loading to bump on. BB are easy to stick in a case but the value stops there for me.

Mr.Duncan: If you are not in a position to pour and size your own cast bullets,I recommend you purchase from a true custom caster,(as opposed to a mass produced cast bullet made to sell lots of from a machine caster...PM if you want/need recommendation, AVOID anything bevel based in cast bullets,unless you just intend to "plink" at low velocity... Nate

Sound advice. I'll add that those loads are by and large too heavy for a plain base bullet. That might well contribute to poor accuracy. Were I to use a 165 plain base I would stick with fast powders like Red Dot/Bullseye/Clays and keep the loads under 1400fps, give or take.

For what it's worth I'd bet that rifle was set up for 180 grain bullets. maybe even heavier.

Jim

Another question for you: if you rifle is a true "Enfield" it should be model of 1917. That being the case, there were two barrel configurations the Enfield wore: a two groove and a five groove. Which barrel does your rifle have?

I had a five groove Eddystone that shot the 165s to one hole... but that was a jacketed bullet.

I believe C.E. Harris did quite a bit of work with the two grooved barrels and determined what shot in them and what didn't. It is in the NRA Handbook of Cast Bullets, now long out of print. If I can find mine I will let you know what he said, assuming my memory is correct...

This rifle is an Eddystone with a 5 groove barrel. I have always used jacketed bullets with good accuracy but wanted to try cast. I bought some 165 gr plain base and tried them with 16 gr H 2400 and was astounded that the bullet holes were all over the target. As I said, I tried different loads, and the best so far was using 10 gr TrailBoss, but that was still much worse than jacketed. The only powder I have that is faster is Universal. Do you think about 10 gr would work or do I just give up and try a different bullet? One poster has suggested a supplier with slightly oversize bullets w/gas checks. I may try that.

Robert, the first thing to ensure is bullet fit to barrel, as you have mentioned. If the bullets you have are not at least .301" forward of the driving band, you are going to waste your time, in my estimation. They simply are not big enough to ride the top of the lands, and as such they are going to yaw. The idea that you have tried the 2400 tested load and it not work tells me you more than likely have either a copper fouled barrel or a bullet sizing problem.

Once bullet fit is obtained and the barrel is copper free, you should be able to try the Universal load at the charge weight you mentioned, and slowly work your way up.

Here is a link that may be of help... http://castboolits.gunloads.co...itary-Rifles-Article

Good luck! Don't give up... it is very much a trial and error learning process!

Thanks to all for your comments and advice. I believe that the problem is that the front half of the bullet (.299) is just too small as Doubless and others have said. These bullets are just for scrap and have provided a learning experience. Thanks again for your feedback.

okay so the nose is a little too small [shrug]
your problem was you are shooting them too fast.
a plain base cast bullet does it's best work in the 12-1300 fps area.

your getting all worked up about the wrong thing.

Doubless:
Many thanks for the link.
That's about as educational as anything I've ever read.

George