The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Cast Bullets **WARNING** Shooting cotton fillersGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Tried some loads with a cotton ball just against the powder recently-- the size weighing 2 grains just to hold the charged minus any pressure. What I found shooten the next loads was there was still pieces of COTTON in the cases. These compressed in one instance to a hard, small lump. One case got loaded again MINUS the filler and I saw specks of fire otta the bore-- a lump of cotton had remained in that case from a previous loading. Pulling the bolt showed a small wad of COTTON sitting in the bore maybe 4" forward of the chamber. It was small and blew right out-- but I wonder about shooten another slug over it??? No more cotton for me. No other fiber case fillers either. You would think these agents would be sucked otta the 06 case during the firing sequence-- but doesn't appear to be the case. I tried the method per the Schuetzen guys recommendations. Must be ok in their straight walled cases-- I dunno. I am only reporting and posting what I experienced. | ||
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Ahh Yes..The wad/filler wars again! I have been watching them for years and they made me reluctant to try any type of filler. I finally took the plung after listenting to it all and decided; 1. I want no air space in the case, so that ruled out wads and material that contained air, which could be squoose out by the powder charge. This means 100% loading density. The chamber ring thingey is found somewhere in here..I think!..now that is just an opinion and not necessarilly a fact. 2. I wanted to stay way from organic fillers, like COW and corn meal and grits, as they might contain moisture that would cause them to swell or pack into a solid mass. 3. So, I settled on PSB which is inert,almost no air between the grains and it won't compress very much and won't form a hard plug in time (I think). The use of this stuff will raise pressures due to the extra weight of ejects and so top end loads need to be reduced accordingly. My results have been outstanding so far. I have not found a load that did not improve with the addition to PSB to give 100% loading density. So, let the wad/filler wars roll..but do lets keep it civil. Let the Draconists, Cottonists,Corn Mealists, and Grexists, Toilet Paperists, and Gritists all live and shoot in peace and harmony. Amen and Amen :-) | |||
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You said it - a hard wad that is a tight friction-fit in the case - something only possible in a straight-walled or slightly tapered case. Which is why I won't use fillers with a BN case. The only filler I would consider using in a BN is one which would be consumed completely in powder burning - no issues getting through the BN end of the case. But I haven't found such a filler yet, so.... | |||
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martinibelgian ,sir; Please don't laugh when I tell you this, but for smokeless loads in bottlenecked cases, when you're a bit leery of using any sort of non-consumable filler......try blackpowder for a filler! It fills the volume, doesn't add much ooommph to the charge, will compress nicely to hold the smokeless charge in place, and with the smokeless burning behind it, there won't even be enough fouling to bother about in cases or barrel. The smokeless charge should be reduced a bit and worked back up, but that's normal for experimental loads anyway. I've tried this in a couple of calibers ('06 and .338) and it worked pretty well. However, I am a confirmed "dacronist" now, using it in just about everything and liking it a lot. | |||
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Egad, a Yellowknife Duplex Load.."Holy black"on top of something like one of the 4895 types ? Or ?? Have only Pyrodex "C", what do you think ? have both those calibers, --recall any specific loads ?? Thx, Idabull  | |||
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Martainbelgain, Did you say that C Dell sucessfully duplicated the ringing of chambers in straight walled cases? I am only arare of his duplicating the chamber ring reported by John Campbell in a 30/30 BN cartridge. It was loaded with 12 grains of Bullseye,with a Dacron wad.This was then placed in a 38/55 rifle,resulting in a ringed chamber. I'm anxious to hear of a specific case of a ringed chamber in a straight walled case. Thanks, Frank | |||
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I had an interesting session with a buddy today. Seems he bought a 45/70 and got 150 loaded rounds with it. I cautioned him about using the reloads but he said they must be black powder because they don't rattle when shacken. I still suggested he unload some just to be sure. Well we had a primer, 34gn 4198, a very tight card wad, 16mm of airspace then a 500gn hard cast bullet heavily crimped into the case. For those advocating no filler, What's wrong with using this load? | |||
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Bad ass. I'll tell you what's wrong with that load. That hard wad will hit the bullet and it will be the same condition as if you had a bore obstruction. bad news big time. If you will refer to my earlier post on this subject, you will notice that I had ringed a barrel on a Marlin 1895 using hard wads. That was with a light load on Unique. The charge you mention would probably generate a lot higher pressure, possibly leading to a catastrophic failure of the gun. I do believe that breaking those loads down would be a damn good idea. JMHO. Paul B. | |||
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I'll agree with Paul wholeheartly on that one. Bad Ass...I bet you were testing us. You're a keen fellow, that's why you pulled those loads apart and good thing you did. Joe | |||
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I have had a couple of emails and one post asking what PSB is. Precision's Spherical Buffer is a very fine grain shotshell buffer that is very close to the old Winchester Grex. It compress some but very little. In the neck of the case, I try to keep the PSB column about the highth of a gas check or two higher than where the base of the bullet will rest, to allow for slight compression. Precision Reloading, Inc. PO Box 122 Stafford Springs, CT 06076 860-684-5680 They have a web site but you will have to dig it up. They also put out a catalog. They mostly deal in shotgun reloading stuff. | |||
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Yes just testing to see if you'all on the ball. After nearly shitting our pants we unloaded the lot! The previous owner regretably died from other natural causes but never got to fire his 1874 Sharps that his wife bought him for his 40th birthday. (Thank the lord) Lesson for us all, "DON'T USE ANYONE ELSES RELOADS!!!!!!" | |||
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*raising hand* Put me down as one who has ringed a chamber using dacron filler. My rifle was a very nice Remington 03A3. The load was a mild charge of AA #2 behind the RCBS 30-180FN. The ring occurred at the location surrounding the base of the bullet. You could see it very clearly on the fired cases. Using the rifle was impossible after it was ringed. The case would extrude into the ring and the bolt would have to be *flogged* open with the heel of my hand to pull the case past the ring. At the time it happened, I discussed it with some fellow members of the Cast Bullet Association. The general consensus was that ball powders are more likely to cause a ring when used in conjunction with filler. | |||
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The dacron was tamped very snugly against the powder charge. I really don't have any ideas concerning the physics which cause filler to produce chamber rings. The subject was the cause of quite a bit of discussion in the Cast Bullet Associations news letter back when it happened to me. It's been many years ago. I never reached a conclusion,...all I can tell you is that I won't use fillers again. | |||
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Quote: Fazak I kinda had a hunch that is what happened. If you read this whole thread you would have a pretty good idea of the cause but I'll sum it up for you here again. First never, never, never tamp a filler tight against the powder. What you do in effect then is turn the filler into a projectile and the loaded bullet then becomes a barrel obstruction. When fired the filler compresses the air between itself and the bullet and bingo...a ringed chamber. You have to spread that filler out and it's not that hard to do. Dacron is more naturally springy then kapok so alot of guys use it. Too bad that happen to you and now you won't use a filler. Joe | |||
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Good advice from starmetal. Larry Gibson | |||
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I got an opinion (But, then I got an opinion on everything.) I use fillers from time to time, mostly dacron, but I have tried most of them. I only use them when two conditions exist: 1. I am using tiny powder charges for the case and nothing else has worked. 2. I am willing to expend a barrel if that happens. (Ain't happened yet.) I shoot mostly Handis and 98 Mausers. Factory will do me a Handi barrel for less than 100 bucks. I can fit Mauser barrels myself and have several spares in the shop. I'll use fillers in odd military junk that I have less than $100 bucks in. Ring a chamber and maybe I can rechamber and maybe I can get another barrel on, but I ain't gonna be out much more than the price of a speeding ticket. (I speed, too.) | |||
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Leftoverdj; A good attitude. I follow it myself with most of my mil-surp gear. The guys that shoot the "high priced" stuff wouldn't do that though. I guess I still have too many Ozarks ways. | |||
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Fazak, You have made a 'Believer' out of me. I have loaded a Ton of cast bullets with Dacron in the '06.Because I always believed that the filler should be on the powder,and not between the powder and the bullet,I am guilty of,at times,tamping the Dacron to the powder. I never had a hint of a problem.Most,if not all of the powder used was IMR#4198.Maybe that makes a big difference,although I know nothing of the powder that you used. Anyway,I am now a confirmed 'EX tamper'. Thanks for sharing your experience, Frank | |||
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I have come to this thread late and for that I am sorry as it all seems to have been said. But I feel I must toss something into the pot and see if it floats. I use Kapok as a filler for my light Unique loads. They tend to group tighter than the same load without filler. I only use a pea sixed wad to settle the powder at the bottom and I lightly tamp it down with a dowel. I do this because a case full of kapok or a pea sized lump will each compress to the thickness of a dollar bill the nanosecond the primer fires. My goal is to keep the powder from laying flat across the bottom of the cartridge and have the primer ignition flash over the top. I know that the force of the primer alone can start a bullet into the chamber. A fluffy filler is not going to do anything to alter the volume of air in the cartridge nor can it offer the spraying powder any containment. I am looking for as uniform an ignition as I can get with as little foreign material as possible. Kapok is highly flamible yet it still makes it out of the barrel to drift off on the wind. I do not argue nor dispute the loads of those who fill the void but I can't see what the net effect of a case full of kapok verses a large pea wad with a gap can be. Since powder is still burning as the bullet enters the chamber it is only logical to assume that any fluffy filler will be compressed against the base of the bullet by some volume of yet burned powder that has been sprayed forward by the primer jet. Granted, hard fillers - grex and COW are a whole different animal but fluff and TP should be well compressed. My contention is that no fluf material is going to push the air in the case like a piston in a cylinder to cause a hydrolic like pressure spike, nor is that small pea weight of fluff going to hit the back of the bullet with more force than the powder that used to reside at the back of the bus. These things I think I know or at least they seem logical to what I know the force of the primer to be. As for ringing which generally occures a few inches forward of the neck of the cartridge I have been told. I have some other ideas but I don't know. I just wanted to say that fluff fillers must all compress to zilch on ignition and that yet to burn powder itself will have the greater mass to hitt the bullet base than the fluf. If I am wrong please inform me. JB | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Cast Bullets **WARNING** Shooting cotton fillers
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