I posted that thread titled “32 LONG COLT…” yesterday. Was back out shooting that little Model ’92 again today and I just decided to do some “critical” measuring with the N.E.I. bullet and the barrel of this century old rifle. Although accuracy is acceptable to me using iron sites and � century old eyes, I wonder if I could improve on it a bit with better cast bullets—dimensions are the issue.

The bullet N.E.I .313-95-HEEL casts in at 0.312�" and the heel is at 0.3005�". Now then the barrel dimensions are 0.308�" for the rifling and 0.3035” for the bore. The twist appears to be between 1:22” and 1:24” and the bullet length is 0.558” with a bearing surface of 0.164�” (rifling engraving marks).

Now to the questions, I wonder if it would be better if the heel of this bullet was closer to the bore diameter as the heel actually becomes a bore rider? The heel of the bullet will drop easily into the muzzle of this bore and the bullet rests on the 1st driving band. And, possibly if the bullet was cast from a softer alloy, would it help the heel obturate and possibly become a better bore rider? Presently, the bullets are cast from straight wheel weights and SAECO in at 6.0 or a BHN of 9.0-9.5.
Maybe a pure lead/ww alloy might be better?

Any thoughts? I know this is being compulsive! and I certainly can’t shoot the rifle much better than I presently am because of the iron sights, but I am just curious. Thanks…BCB

That's a mighty short bearing surface.

With the bore at .308, I'd be mighty tempted to see if I could use .309 bullets without the heel by reaming or turning the cases.

I know those cases are precious and close to irreplacable, but it's a thought.

I have done a LOT of shooting with the 41 Long Colt, which is a scaled up version of what you have. I have shot hollow-base and heel-base bullets from 11 different bullet moulds (9 of which I own). The hollow-base is easier to get to shoot well, but the heel-base is sometimes (repeat, SOMETIMES) more accurate.

First, you should get better results with softer lead. I use 40:1 lead/tin. No antimoney at all. If you can recover any shot bullets, check to see if the heel has rifling marks all around at the rear of the heel. If not, the lead is too hard. The base SHOULD expand and help stabilize it in the bore. I have shot hard heel-base bullets and they just tip in the bore (marks on one side only).

You need to use the fastest powder possible. Unique never gave me very good accuracy in the 41LC. Bullseye was better, but black powder was even better. However, I have never had good luck with BP in small bores, so maybe your best bet is Bullseye, WW231, or something just as fast.

Unfortunately, one of the best looking, best casting heel-base bullet moulds I have is from NEI. I have also shot a different NEI heel-base bullet. Neither are accurate for no reason that I can understand. The best heel-base bullets have long straight sides on the front portion (the best one I have looks almost like a wadcutter or one of the LBT bullets) with a fairly short heel.

Let me know if you have any other questions. I check here once every few days.

PS. I forgot to mention that one of the most important things with heel-base bullets and smokeless powder is crimping. That is not as important with BP, but with smokeless, if you do not have a firm, consistent crimp, you will not get any accuracy at all. No loading dies I am familiar with crimp heel-base bullets properly. I originally made a crimper by dripping a large hole in an electricians wire stripper/crimper. It worked better than nothing, but not good enough. I later had Lee make a custom 41LC factory crimp die for me and things got a lot better.

Leftoverdj,

You are correct in thinking about shooting 0.308 cast bullets, BUT, the brass, as you mentioned, is now worth nearly a fortune!!! And, it is so dang thin that I doubt one could machine enough from the inside and not have “brass paper”. I can literally collapse the neck/mouth using very minimal pressure with my fingers! I really don’t know if the brass is too specs even as newly manufactured Remington brass—Oh well, there ain’t no more to be found at the prices I paid several years ago...

Harry O,

Thanks for the info. I made a few pounds of 40-1 a few minutes ago. I will try casting some of the .313-95-HEEL from this alloy. I wondered about softer bullets to allow the heel to obturate and possible help stabilize the bullet—more bearing surface. As previously noted, the bearing surface of this bullet is quite short compared to the length of this bullet. Actually only about 30% of the slug touches the rifling. Maybe some of the heel does also, but this I might view later. I am going to shoot one of the pure wheel weight slugs into some catalogs and see if there is rifling on the heel portion.

I have had the best accuracy with the Unique load. I have tried faster powders, but velocity and accuracy lacked. Maybe a softer alloy will help with this. Crimping is certainly a problem. I simply push the bullet into a sized case and it “snaps” in place as it reached the rear driving band. Pretty imprecise as far as loading standards go, but that is all I have to work with. A custom crimping die from Lee is surely worth a shot—no pun intended! Would I send a dummy loaded round to Lee and have them do the machining? It would probably have to be one of their Factory Crimp Dies? I have several of them for other calibers and I do like them. Also, any tips on casting the 40-1 alloy. I have had trouble in the past casting alloys of this much lead/tin combinations. I really enjoy casting a 2-1 alloy of ww-#2. But as you mentioned, this alloy would be too hard.

Thanks for the replies…BCB

The faster powder with softer bullets WILL allow the heel to expand. At least with my guns it was more accurate. Sounds like your NEI mould is like mine. Mine is a 41-205gr (#215 on the webpage). It has a long rounded nose and only a little (1/3) is full-diameter. I was never able to get good accuracy with it. The other NEI I tried was a 41-200gr (#214). It has a short nose and a long tail. Even worse accuracy, but I bought them over the Internet and they were cast from Linotype or harder.

Since the heel-base bullets are blocky (at least compared to the hollow-base ones), very little tin is needed to get them to fill out. I have cast with 80:1, but got no better results than with 40:1. Since I use 40:1 for a lot of other stuff, it makes no sense to have two mixtures.

You will have to push a bullet into the case and send it to Lee to have them make a custom factory crimp die. I think it was $30 and it was well worth it with the increased accuracy I got with it. Before it, I never got any heel-base bullet to shoot more accurately than hollow-base bullets. Afterward, two of them were more accurate.

I have shot the .32 Long and .32 Short in my 1892 Marlin and my #2 Ballard using smokeless with very good results for some time. I have all three original Ideal loading tools/moulds: .32 LOL (90gr.), .32SOL (82gr.)and .32 LIL (80gr.). So far, I've had the best results with the .32LOL and .32SOL bullets using a 1:25 alloy. I use primarily Bullseye and get good results from 0.8gr. (for Squirrels in the backyard) up to about 3gr. for full loads. I've not had much luck with the hollowbased bullets (.32LIL) with smokeless even using a very soft alloy. I don't crimp, since the original tools didn't crimp the LOL or SOL heeled bullets, and really don't need to, to get accuracy in either rifle.

I seriously doubt you could ream the cases for full bore size bullets...probably would have to rechamber to .32S&W but that would be heresy. I've seen pictures of the NEI .32Long bullet but was not impressed by the appearance. I got lucky and will stick with my original Ideal tools.

Harry O.

I shot some of the BHN 9 and some of the BHN 6 (SAECO 6 and 2.5+ respectively) .313-95-HEEL bullets into catalogs at 50 yards. It is interesting that the BHN 6 bullets actually did show rifling/bore marks on the heel—the BHN 9 did not!!! The BHN 6 bullets are a 40:1 (lead to tin) alloy. It was also interesting that the softer bullets actually hit at or very near to point of aim. The harder bullets always have been shooting to the left. Now I will load a few up and try them for accuracy. Thanks for the advise on the softer bullets…BCB

t1885b,

Nope, there won't be a rechamber to 32 S&W!!! I like this little rascle and it actually shoots the N.E.I. bullet fairly well. Maybe the softer alloy will even improve on this--Hopefully. Thanks...BCB

Glad that you are getting better results. You don't mention the powder, but I think that faster would also help expand the rear of the heel better to help stabilize it. I think the reason the harder ones were off center is that they were tipping in the bore rather than expanding the heel. You are on your way, though. Have fun.

Harry O,

I sent a couple of the N.E.I. slugs and a couple of 32 Long Colt pieces of brass to Lee for a possible custom crimping die. Lee sent it all back and indicated the case is too short for their type of crimping system. Bummer!!! (I am sure glad they sent the brass back as I requested...It is very expensive and nearly impossible to find anymore) Any other thoughts on a crimping die? Thanks...BCB

BCB. Sorry to hear that Lee cannot make a crimping tool for that caliber. I recall now that you mention it that someone back there said something about short cartridges are a problem because the collets flex too much and fatigue out prematurely. It was not a problem with the 41LC so I never got into the details.

Before I had the Lee die, I modified an electrical wire-stripper/crimping-tool. They are fairly inexpensive at any hardware store or Sears. I drilled a big hole in the center of the little holes that it comes with. Then I smoothed the edges so that it did not cut the case.

It worked better than NOT crimping at all, but was not as good as the Lee I later got. I had to play with it a while to get the right diameter. I don't know what the outside diameter of your case is, but it should be a little bit less. I seem to remember that the heel (or inside diameter) was 0.299". I don't remember the outside diameter though. You may have to get a 1/64" drill at the same hardware store to get one close enough to do the job. Anything oversize will not work at all. Too far undersized doesn't work well either.