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Spend 4 minutes and view a tribute to those who have preserved our right to be a free and mighty nation. Our son has returned from the desert, some sons are not coming home. Every generation of Americans owes much to those men and women who paid the ultimate sacrifice to keep us free. Let these images warm you too and steel your resolve, "Only From My Cold Dead Fingers." http://www.forest.ws/WeSupportU.htm Captain | ||
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Thanks!!! I have saved it under "THINGS OF GREAT IMPORTANCE" | |||
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I lost my Dad Sept 1 03. Dad was in the Battle Of The Bulge. About a couple of weeks before he passed away a niece called to see how Dad was doing. She asked a couple of questions about WW II . When Dad got off the phone with tears in his eyes . He told Mom that when you look across a field you see hundreds of bodies of dead kids. There's and ours. Every one of the kids there's and ours belonged to someone and had people at home that loved them . People that were going to be hurt when they found out they where not coming home. Kids that were never going to get to live out there lives. Dad never hardly ever talked about the war. He was badly wounded by a tank shell in the Battle Of The Bulge. I only heard a little of this and that in the 50 yrs I knew him. I do know that he told that if it was not for a medic that tipped his head all of the night before they got him out to drain the blood out of his throat that he would of died from his wounds to his neck and lungs. Dad was one of the best men I have ever known. I say that not because he was my Dad but because it was bore out to those that knew him and worked with him thru his life. God Bless the solders May the ones that cause the wars rot in hell [ 09-30-2003, 11:57: Message edited by: gregg ] | |||
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J�rgen, You will find tons of support at democraticunderground.com My father and I, along with more friends and relatives than I can count were involved in a few of those 180 war "incidents." I have no guilt issues. Eddie | |||
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J�rgen, your attitude is exactly what is wrong. Neither you nor anyone else who is not an American can determine what is a threat to the U.S. This same attitude is pervasive in the United Nations and is one big reason the U.S. should stop funding it. By the same token, only Germans can determine what is a threat to Germany - whether anything is done in response is another story - depends on if you have any balls. Since you specifically mentioned Vietnam, you must remember that the response was due to a treaty. That's why countries have allies and make treaties, mutual defense. What value is a man's or nation's word? sundog | |||
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quote:The man has a right to his opinions, it's comic to hear someone state he/she is 'wrong' on one of these issues. And I find the person most often talking about the state of balls often questions the quality of his own. The latest 'war' has already drained $87 Billion and another $87 Billion is now up for appropriation, and they won't say they won't want MORE $. What was accomplished? Nothing. What would $174 BILLION do for this failing econonmy?? If nothing else not adding this figure to the Nat Debt would be a plus, for we're projected to go $500 BILLION or more in the hole this yr alone! One of the reasons our country is run by fools only concerned with lining their pockets is cause the average Joe doesn't know SH**. | |||
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My take on this is a bit different. I wonder what the world would be like today if the US had NOT engaged in those "180 plus" conflicts worldwide. Had we not spilled OUR blood and spent OUR gold, I wonder if this forum would even exist? Unlike our oh-so-superior European "friends," America has not tried to occupy or rule the countries we have entered into armed conflict with. In fact, if history will view America's involvement on the world stage honestly, I think it would proove out that most of our conflicts were to clean up messes caused by those countries who are now whining, most notably the French. Who begged us to get into Bosnia? And where were those beggers when we responded to a threat on our own shores on 9-11? Their heads were buried deep where the sun don't shine, that's where. Another despot has been removed from the world stage (another in a long succession of despots worldwide, I might add), and now, with 20-20 hindsight, all we can hear are complaints. America doesn't expect the thanks it deserves; it DOES expect the whiners to enjoy the freedom America has given the world. | |||
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No BS, where do you think that money goes? It goes to American companies and goes towards stimulating that economy. A return of that money directly to the taxpayers might also be nice, but the fact is that we're fighting a war, a war against fundamentalist Islam and the terrorism it inspires. That isn't limited to Iraq, or A-stan or any other single nation for that matter, it's a world war for all practical purposes. The alternative to not fighting that war is to roll over and take it in the can like the Europeans. Who, by the way, are having us continue to fight their war in Bosnia and Kosovo. Now THAT is money that is wasted. Semper Fidelis...Ken M | |||
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It's nothin' but greed, folks! Greed for security that does not physically exist is perhaps the best explaination. ... felix | |||
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Felix- Your ability to see the true problem in any given situation astounds me. | |||
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Jurgen. When the North Koreans came across the 38th parallel in 1950, the detachment commander at the Air Force Weather station decided that as the weather people had no real combat training, the best thing to do was to surrender. This they did. It was later found out that they were immediately taken to a hangar and hanged. We didn't ask to get embroiled in that war. (I refuse to accept the term "police action". I've stood on the spot, called Task Force Smith, where several hundred brave American soldiers gave their all in a delaying action against thousands of North koreans. I'd have to look through my slide collection for a picture of the sign and memrial placed there, but this I know. There were DAMN few American survivors. Now, the South Koreans want us out, or at least they did until the north started rattling their sabres again. Seems like in WW-2, we bailed out a country called France. next time, if another Hitler should arise, he can keep those farking frogs. That's gratitude for ya. Paul B. | |||
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To the original post, my father, mother and uncle served in WW II. My father and mother were in the Navy, my uncle ended up in the Marines. Unfortunately my uncle didn't return from a small volcanic island named Iwo Jima. Despite the fact that my uncle passed away many decades before I was born, I feel a special kinship to him. I guess that's based on what little I now of him from my dad, which is that we we shared the same interests and hobbies. Anyhow, out of curiosity I did a web search on Iwo to see if there was a list of those that gave their lives on that little island, and I did find the list, with his name included. What touched me was reading what a Chaplin had to say about the battle and the losses entailed. http://www.geocities.com/mbackstr2000/dead/dead.htm What saddens and angers me is that that speeach is not taught in our schools. It epitimizes what war is about. | |||
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I'm in agreement with felix re: the current conflict in Iraq. Our gov't is in the process of taking money from our children to enrich the current old boy network. We live in a country run by oil men for oil men, and if you can't see that relationship in our foreign policy, you need to open your eyes a little wider. Don't get me wrong, I don't entirely disagree with our current foreign policy, let's just call a spade a spade. BD | |||
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Re: Spades Ok, let's call a spade a spade. Spade #1 is that our entire economy depends on energy, oil especially. Spade #2, we depend on imported oil. Spade #3, No oil, no economy. Spade #4, no economy, no US of A. If someone else can come up with spade #5, we'll have a straight flush. | |||
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Spade #5 -- flush -- No USA is equivalent to no hope for a freedom oriented constitution, followed or not, remaining at all. ... felix | |||
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quote:Spade #5 is the greanies, commies and lefties won't allow expanded production of energy in the US, hence the dependance on foreign sources. | |||
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Captain, I'll skip the politics. Thanks for the message, it's in my favorites under "Our Soldiers". God save the good work. Ernie | |||
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quote:Mike ya sound like the Kramer character on 'Seinfeld'. His contention that 'big companies just write it off' all the while NOT understanding even basic accounting was my favorite piece. Now my good man, please spell D-E-B-T. Say it, DEBT. Again please-- DEBT. FYI this $ HAS TO BE REPAID, with something called interest, or what the person actually owning the money charges to use his cash. DEBT. INTEREST. These accounting terms have sunk many economies. Now understand it takes one hell of alot of JOE AVERAGES' TAXES [that's T-A-X-E-S] to repay this DEBT, not even counting the eventual BILLIONS in INTEREST which accumulate. THen the other factor, the amount of "SLIPPAGE" said corporations REAM this/these TAXPAYERS for the services they "say ??" they'll provide for the billions we PAY [P-A-Y, as in payroll check] in TAXES. AND my good man, the ONLY REASON these corps are so anxious to get to Iraq and provide [shaft, screw us] these services is because there'll BE NO COMPETITIVE BIDDING, AS MR CHENEY AND THE REST OF HIS PARTNERS IN CRIME HAVE ALREADY CHOSEN THEIR BUDDIES TO RAPE US TAXPAYERS. No charge for the basic Economic ed, but I've contended for YEARS AND YEARS that the Jackasses who run this gov get away with it cause the average JOE doesn't vote or know anything about basic ACCOUNTING................. | |||
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No BS, do you know of companies that provide the same services as Halliburton and Kellog, Brown and Root that could compete with them on bid? Do you know how long the bidding process takes and how much money you waste right there, as well as opening up the process for all the nitpickers, naysayers to impede the process? Also you provide the opportunity for politicians to start tacking their personal projects on, like analyzing cow methane's effect on the ozone layer(where all the money is really wasted, aside from socialism). The USG is absolutely wonderful for spending money on useless, timewasting process to no effect. You seem to be an advocate of this. So you're saying we should not have fought in Iraq or A-stan? You saying we should not have begun rebuilding that country? Just what exactly are you trying to say? Yeah, there's going to be some debt, it comes with fighting wars and trying to keep the same disgusting level of socialist BS on the home front. Cut the socialism, win the wars, that's the primary purpose of the Federal government. S/F...Ken M | |||
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I wonder why there is so little criticism of the Bosnia involvement? We've been there now for what? 6 years? What US national interest is represented there do you suppose? | |||
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Grumble, it's because most Americans are happy, overweight little peacelovers who have no idea about the world outside of America or about how hard most people on this earth have it. They think the UN is a good thing and that all nations and peoples ought to be equal, because that's the silly crap they were taught in school. The concept of someone eagerly wanting to kill them is completely outside their consciousness. Bosnia brings peace to Europe! How can that be a bad thing?(heavy sarcasm) The fools like to see America as a peacemaker, they just don't want to pay for it, both in money and men. Semper Fidelis.....Ken M | |||
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I don't disagree, E6M, but I don't think that's why involvement in Bosnia gets a pass, while Iraq and Af'stan are heavily criticized. I think it has to do more with what Administration got the US involved in the first place. Some administrations can do no wrong to the complainers, while others can do no right. | |||
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Actually IMHO spade #5 is the dependence of the entire world economy on the dwindling supply of oil, and the fact that a significant portion of the last few drops cannot be controlled by a mass murdering meglomaniac, (with stated goals of regional domination), as we approach the end-game of the world oil economy. I just hope that indications that our current administration will screw up the process out of personal greed, or the need for vindication, do not prove to be the long term down fall of the needed regional stabilization. The folks who are capable and willing to underbid Haliburton for the oil field restoration are the French. They already had the contracts, (worth billions). Why do you think they've been trying to avert the current chain of events? I say it's time to call their bluff, give them the oil field reconstuction, and let them bring in the troops and money to guarantee thier success. The fact is that we use oil for a multitutde of uses. We do not even know what the highest value use of the last of it will be. I think that the generations who follow us will shake thier heads in disbelief that we were burning it for heat. BD | |||
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I wonder how one defines dwindling supplies of oil. I've been involved in the oil industry for several years now, and am familiar with a few different oil containing, and producing regions around the world. Only a fraction of the known oil reserves have been extracted. Some resevoirs have even been found to have re-filled over time, and it is unknown exactly how or why. The only thing limiting supply is the economic cost of producing the more difficult fields, and the desire to keep production so that prices are a stable $20-25 a barrel. Advances in production and new techniques have vastly increased the recovery rates of existing fields, as well as allowing previously marginal fields to be produced profitably. Are oil companies a bunch of greedy bastards, you betcha! But lets face it, how many of us will give up our hydrocarbon burning house heat to go back to cutting our own firewood for heat? What would the environental impact be of all the deforestation required to provide that much heat? Hydrogen and batteries sound like the wonder cure for automobiles, but Hydrogen isn't a fuel source, rather an energy storing device, just like a battery. Energy is required to produce hydrogen, or the electricity to charge the batteries, and more hydrocarbons are used to store that energy then if they were burned directly in the automobile itself. | |||
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I've been sitting here for 20 minutes trying to decide whether to take on this debate about oil, BD, and finally decided it would get too long and drawn out. And it is so far off topic that I doubt our friends here would allow us to continue it to completion. Suffice it to say that the world is NOT using up its "last drops" of oil. Current wellheads and known reserves are sufficient to last for the forseeable future, given historical increasing rates of usage. And, I wholeheartedly disagree with turning over the Iraqi oilfields to the French, just as I wouldn't agree with letting Kazikstan be in charge of preventing nuclear proliferation. But, we're pretty far afield, so I vote we let the subject drop. | |||
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quote:IF memory serves correct Grumble, the Bosnia 'war' hasn't run up the tab the Iraq "war" has. And I think being the current 'war' is a work/lie in progress which has the American focus at present. IF not for the wake of 9-11 a war in Iraq wouldn't have come off. And the thing IS-- Iraq had nothing to do with the towers coming down. Iraq is going to a MESS for many, many years. Another 'Nam... | |||
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Actually, I found the Kazakhs to be wonderful people. The one thing they need to shed is the lingering communist mindset of I must do what I'm told, if no-one tells me what to do, I won't do anything, because I cannot think for myself. I'd say the vast majority of them would have no desire to promote nuclear proliferation. The fact is however that they don't have the military/economic might to effect nuclear proliferation. Oh yeah, and there is alot of oil under the Caspian Sea! It's also real nasty sour stuff, so I'd much rather have it processed 1/2 way around the world from us. As I recall, the field they were exploring when I was over there was estimated to have 20 billion barrels in reserves, and it wasn't the only large field there. | |||
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I'm also going to let the subject drop with just a parting comment. I believe part of the problem is the view the the "foreseeable future" is 100 years or so. If we are to be ultimately successful as a species we may need to look a little farther ahead than that. BD | |||
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Oooooops , did my lines all cause this above ?Hopefully not , it`s just my 2 cents worth .But obviously some of you feel really "attacked" by my opinion , be it as it may , the interest of your country is to rule the world and tell everybody what to do or not to do , FACT!You`ll not accept that some people don`t want to live in democracy , don`t want their women almost naked in public or want to sell their oil to YOUR companies !A few decades ago , some people decided not to give away their land to white settlers, today , they are almost gone .No one (make that hardly anyone) in your country has even the slightest interest in it! How do I know ? Well , maybe cause I have some friends for many years that belong to native indian tribes. I know , I`m a bit off topic , yup , but still , if put into proper perspective (did you ever try to think what it would be if you were in the other position) your country probably is the most agressive nation in the world ! Yes and your people all died for democracy and to save the world , BS ! It was and always will be for POWER and MONEY! We can only speculate: what if you stayed home? No one knows , it`s history ,but I don`t want anybody to tell me how I should educate my children , it`s my business and therefore I wouldn`t tell anybody else how to educate his/her children ! Will the USA ever stop to tell the rest of the world what to do or not do ? Again , I apologize for my lines above , that`s the way I see it . | ||
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The weak always get defeated and subjugated by the strong. This is the way of the world. America tends to be better than most when doing this, we do it economically, rather than through force of arms, usually. You think the world is ever going to be any different as long as their are humans on it, you're lying to yourself or you're ignorant. S/F...Ken M | |||
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Ken, it's not a we, meaning US citizens, anymore, it's the corporates after the natural resources in the world, to "sell" proceedes to us wee's throughout the world. Gummits and state boundaries are just in harms way. This has been going on since 1917-1918, and Germany and the rest of the world, including the USA, are just challenges, if you will. ... felix | |||
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Felix, I believe you are skirting around the exact reason. And this is why we will not ever see global warfare again such as the 20th century brought us. The multinational corporations are just not going to allow it. Profits. That said, pressure brought to bear, and nations act. I do not see this in conflict with my earlier comments. sundog | |||
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J�rgen Sorry to say i may have opened this ball game. I did find your first post interresting. Your newest post do have a bite to it. I feel many here are missing the point. Got to say I fell very strongly that felix Has been hitting the nail very hard right on the head. As far as our native people go I have lived my whole life with them . Don't think when nailed down they want to go live in there Tee Pee. No more than we want to relive the thirtes. I fear the new world order is on us more than any of us know. They are the big money,world banks ,corporates . We are just luckly to be able to have a talk like this yet.jurgen stay with us here. We got bullets to pour and powder to burn. | |||
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"your country probably is the most agressive nation in the world ! " Jurgen, Actually, I believe that in the lifetimes of the people currently living on this planet, your country clearly holds this title. For your sake, "Let not the sins of the fathers visit upon the sons". BD | |||
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"America tends to be better than most when doing this, we do it economically, rather than through force of arms, usually" Where have you been???? Our economy is going down the drain/overseas at breakneck speed. America is LOOSING the economic war, to Japan, China, SE Asia in general. The goal of the super rich is to eliminate the middle class... to make two classes in the end. The few thousand Super Rich and then everyone else. AND... we're back to huge deficits this yr again. Even the dum asses who run the mess admit to around $500 Billion of red ink this yr. The largest budget deficit EVER. Sure their 'REPUBs' and bend over nice for the NRA... all the while selling this country out to the whims of the rich. Sure the DEMs suck bigtime. But poison is poison.. it'll kill no matter the political flavor. | |||
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I just had to look into this again during my lunch break (btw, I`m parts manager in an authorized HARLEY-DAVIDSON dealership !)What amazes me most is that some of you are very open minded and see me not as a GERMAN , but as a person that sees your country from a different angle, thanks all my (mental) brothers !But some of you , in their (blind?) patriotism , would rather die for your government(s) instead of seeing that they really are the betrayed ones , always were and probably will be ,as long as people like Mr.Bush (doesn`t matter which one) and everyone that has a ....stein in his last name rule your poor country(The more knowledgeable ones understand which "minority" I`m talking about)! Have you ever been to Mexico , I mean with the mexican people together for dinner ? A handful of people actually own all of the country ,all the rest is a bunch of working slaves , sacrificed on the altar of MONEY ! Some of you got me wrong indeed , but that`s ok , keep on having prejudices and stay mis/uninformed and whoever thinks that the WTC towers were destroyed by Mr. bin Laden and his friends : well I guess you do still believe in the easter bunny as well as Santa Claus ! ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} | ||
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Cast Bullets???? A Tribute to All Those That Served? I'm still looking 4 a .358Dia. 300grain gas checked bullet. And my last name does not end in stien, Or berg or whatever. I haven't seen it solved in my life time and it ain't going to be solved by verbal war on this forum. I think I'll go load some ammo. | |||
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Hey Bartsche: it was not my intention to turn it into politics !I`d rather go shooting too , but maybe if we can`t solve THIS problem , we`ll end up shooting ...........at each other again ! But obviously you know who I meant with the last names. ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} | ||
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Oh Bartsche , I almost forgot : if you happen to find a 300gr. 358 dia. mould let me know ! My heaviest is a 265 gr. from Saeco and my 35 Whelen Imp. is looking for some more weight , I`m serious ! | ||
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