I don't want to hijack stradling's thread as he is trying to source 350gr. and 400gr. cast bullets for his 450-400. I am in the same process but maybe part of my problem is correctly understanding what I should be looking for. I have found 400gr cast bullets but do not know if they are what I really need.

If I am pushing a cast bullet at 2100 fps are air-cooled bullets with BHN of 18 good or should I go with heat treated bullets with 22 BHN? Is a gas check needed?


I have leaned towards 22 BHN and gas checks which has made my efforts to find manufactured, cast bullets that are not special order a bit more challenging.

Eric

Eric, the textbook answer for your question is that any bullet over 2k fps needs a gas check. Frankly, I have never tested that, but several books put it out like it is scripture.

I think I would water drop my cast and see how that works for you. Water quenching is a cheap way of upping the hardness several Brinell points.

Thanks Doubless. Right now I am teetering on the balance of buying some HT bullets and jumping into the casting my own arena. I am trying to secure a decent source of lead before buying the equipment.

Eric

Why don't you get your toes wet with 20-1 BPCR bullets and shoot them about 1200 to 1300 FPS.

Order them without sizing or lube. Lube with a suitable smokeless lube and try them out. You only need max velocity for sight in and hunting.
That way you are only out a little time and cash before you start shooting.

If you start casting you have to acquire equipment and casting experience. The experience takes a good bit of time unless you have a mentor.

SR4759,

I'm using them in my Sabatti so I was hoping to keep them close to regulation speed. I used to cast years ago. Back then we would gas check .357 mag but 9mm and 45 we would just air cool, size/lube and reload. I don't have any experience with the benefits of water quenching and we never HT in the past. If I can water quench, get and BHN up to 22 or so and do okay at 2100 fps that'll save some work. If I need to gas check I can do that. Sometimes the stuff you learned as the gospel truth in the past turns out to be less than such. My biggest hurdle is finding a decent supply of lead that makes it worthwhile. I found some 22 BHN gas checked cast for sale that are cheaper than jacketed and will probably go that way if a lead supply doesn't pan out.

Eric

You might go over to Cast Boolits and check out the alloy/metals forum. There is a supplier named Rotometals that can provide you with the alloy you want if you are willing to pay their price. Otherwise you may have to pick it up on ebay.
The LA Silhouette Club has one of the best web sites about cast bullets.

There is a complete discussion of alloys.

LASC

LASC Cast bullet notes

Forty caliber cast bullets
forty caliber cast bullets

quote:

Originally posted by ELeeton:
SR4759,

I'm using them in my Sabatti so I was hoping to keep them close to regulation speed. I used to cast years ago. Back then we would gas check .357 mag but 9mm and 45 we would just air cool, size/lube and reload. I don't have any experience with the benefits of water quenching and we never HT in the past. If I can water quench, get and BHN up to 22 or so and do okay at 2100 fps that'll save some work. If I need to gas check I can do that. Sometimes the stuff you learned as the gospel truth in the past turns out to be less than such. My biggest hurdle is finding a decent supply of lead that makes it worthwhile. I found some 22 BHN gas checked cast for sale that are cheaper than jacketed and will probably go that way if a lead supply doesn't pan out.

Eric

SR4759

I appreciate the links and the info. I've used Montana Bullet Works for .40 S&W and have been pleased thus far.

Eric

Re: earlier statement about buying lead off of e-bay. Be VERY careful about such purchases. I have read on several different fora of people selling "lead" on e-bay from WW, they don't tell you that they just melt down the whole bucket of WW without segregating the zinc ones, just melt 'em all together. Zinc will ruin your melt. Lot's cheaper to purchase from reputable sellers on the castboolit forum or get it from Rotometals, at least you know what you're getting. GW

Eric,
I'm using heat treated wheel weights in my 450/400 and Linotype in the .458 Win Mag, both bullets are gas checked and they shoot fine. I would recommend buying lino from Rotometals, they are good to deal with and your next batch of lead will be the same as the last. This is an important consideration with a double because if your bullet weight varies enough the rifles regulation is off.
For a mold I would recommend Accurate Molds, Tom does excellent work and will build a mold that fits your rifle. I have five of his molds and they are all perfect.

Lead melts at 621.5 F, Tin melts at 449.5 F but zinc won't melt until 787.2. Not saying you can't get 787.2, but that is much hotter than what's needed. My experience has been if a zinc ww gets in, it floats on top and doesn't melt. That is true if my electric furnace is turned to full blast.

When you buy lead on e-bay I would not advise buying it in the melted form.
Lead sources such as lead pipe and flashing
are a lot more reliable. But face it most people resort to large caliber lead bullets to save money. If you are not a high volume shooter you might as well shoot jacketed bullets. If you are shooting a double rifle and don't want to pay for jacketed bullets I don't really know what to say.

quote:

Originally posted by Goatwhiskers:
Re: earlier statement about buying lead off of e-bay. Be VERY careful about such purchases. I have read on several different fora of people selling "lead" on e-bay from WW, they don't tell you that they just melt down the whole bucket of WW without segregating the zinc ones, just melt 'em all together. Zinc will ruin your melt. Lot's cheaper to purchase from reputable sellers on the castboolit forum or get it from Rotometals, at least you know what you're getting. GW

Hi,
I started casting a couple of years ago and have found that bullet fit is very important.
The first cast bullets I used were purchased from a local manufacturer and were Teflon coated, I later discovered they were to small for my barrel, This caused lots of leading. The lead used is made from 92% Lead, 6% antimony and 2% Tin, It typically tests at 22 brinell. Price is $6.70/kg, you can make a lot of bullets for that, about 50 375's or 280 222's.

After slugging my barrel I purchased a mold from LBT.

I use 2 types of lead, the first is recovered from the range and tests at 14 brinell when air cooled, the same lead when water cooled tests 23 brinell, I have shot 375 and 224 caliber projectiles at above 2600 fps with good accuracy and no leading, even with rapid fire.

The second type of lead is purchased and comes from the same supplier as the local projectile manufacturer uses and is the same mix, 22 brinell.

You will need gas checks!

There is a book available from LBT on using cast bullets at jacketed velocity, it is very informative.

Hope this helps

Thanks x-rings I'll check out the LBT book.

Eric