Lee has introduced a new mold for 475/480 shooters. I just found out about it the other day, and might have to get one. I'm also thinking of getting two, and milling down the face of one of them to make it a plainbase sub 300 gr mold.

Wondering if anyone else has gotten one yet.

Hi Paul, I thought it was a 350?
I ordered 2 of them looking forward to my new 475 showing up. I was haveing the same thought as you on milling one of them down to a sub 300 gn. I can send you some boolits as soon as I get the molds here and mill the one down to try before you spend your money.
Do you have acess to a mill up there to cut one down? If not, I can do one for you if it works out. Remember, I'm not a professional, just a hobbist with dangerous toys.
email me with your shipping address and again next week as a reminder.
Glenn.

Glenn,

I cast up some of the swc's last night, and will try and get them your way next week. I have a small lathe that I use to modify molds.

I got an e-mail from somebody that said he's getting 335 gr from the Lee mold with ww +tin.

With the 275 gr swc I don't know that I'd need to cut down the lee mold, though I'm curious what weight the bullets will be. I'm thinking of maybe just plainbasing the bold, I don't think I'd have a need for a gc for the speeds I'd drive it, though, with a gc it could be driven to 1500-1600 from a 480, and over 1700 from a 475!

My molds came in today. I cleaned and smoked one and cast some with WW. They came out at .476" OD and weigh 323gns at .730" long. The nose is short at .28", but the next lube groove down is at .390"
I put a couple in the lathe and cut the gas check shank off to .628" and got 280gns. I then cut another one up to the next driveing band for .527" and 232gns.

I have the 400gn mold here and cast some with it also. It cast at .480" 407gns and .905" long This one has 2 crimp grooves at .4 and .51"
I put a couple of these in the lathe also. I cut the bottom band in half for .847" and got 378gns, then I cut it up to the next drive band for .734" and 324gns.

I'll see if the pics will post.

I'm thinking the short nose on the 325 will help with takeing up some powder room for plinkers.
My gun should be here next week if all goes well.
I'll see if I can get one of the 325gn molds milled off this weekend??

Hey Paul, nother question. Would you be interested in a Lee factory crimp die for 480/475? I think I'll have a run of 25 made up and also 25 made for the 500S&W x 1.4" It should work for the full length case also? Maybe?
The 480 can be a carbide base die, but the 500 is too big.

The Lee factory crimp die for pistol cartridges squashes cast bullets. The resulting bullet pull is inferior to a standard roll crimp. There is no logical reason to use a Lee factory crimp die, not the kind with the resizing ring.

I use the Lee factory crimp die for my 454 and it lowers the extreme spreads from 80fps to 20fps with no other changes. I am also getting 1.5" groups at 50yds with cast boolits. It works for me. I use it in the 4th spot on my Dillon after a regular seat/crimp.

Lar45,
As I recall, you had a serious problem with your surplus ball powder using standard primers in cold weather. Some of the rounds wouldn't even ignite or exit the barrel -- a problem that other people have reported with surplus ball powders in cold weather. I was with you on that day and noticed a considerable difference in the sound and flash from shot to shot, in addition to the duds. Yet despite the terrible ignition, I drilled a ragged hole in the target with one load. This was before you switched to the FCD, so obviously the FCD doesn't get credit for the good accuracy.

So then you tried the FCD in warmer weather and when the ignition problem went away, you assumed the FCD deserved the credit ??????????

How many shots did you test? At the time you were only using 5 shots for each test -- the reason I never took any of you data seriously. As someone who has taken two college courses in statistics should know, you can't correctly calculate standard deviation with only five shots, and you can't prove anything about accuracy, either. Did you fire them on the same day so temperature was a constant? Did you ever consider using magnum primers with surplus ball powders? Have you ever tested the bullet pull? Have you ever pulled a bullet and verified that the FCD is not damaging the bullet? Is your expander pilot at least 0.005" smaller than the bullet? Are you sure the bullet diameter is big enough -- as I recall, your 0.452" sizing die was actually sizing closer to 0.451", but the throats were closer to 0.453". And last but not least, have you ever considered using a modern powder instead of a surplus powder that is known to be temperature sensitive?

If you have some statistically significant data, by all means share it with us.

Yes I have switched to the CCI small rifle magnum primer for the 454.
For my low velocity 44 mag loads with WC820 I have had good luck with the regular CCI 300 primer.
I switched to a .454 die that sizes at .453"
I haven't checked the expander
I haven't shot the two crimps on the same day, but a day apart. I'll do that.
Yes it was probably 5 shots. I'll do more.
You did shoot a very good target. I was impressed.
I haven't pulled a bullet, just went off of the chrony readings and decent targets.
I still need to send it back to get the bolt spring problem fixed so it doesn't unlock.

Okay, now here's a question for you.
Did you ever shoot any of the loads done with the Lee factory crimp die?
I remember you commenting on just seating and pulling bullets but that you didn't shoot any??

My 480 shoots wicked accurate with the Hornady dies, so I have no plans/desire to add another step. Honestly I think the gun is capable of better accuracy then I've gotten from it, but I sold the scope and never tried to get the ittiest bittiest groups out of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Lar45:
Hey Paul, nother question. Would you be interested in a Lee factory crimp die for 480/475? I think I'll have a run of 25 made up and also 25 made for the 500S&W x 1.4" It should work for the full length case also? Maybe?
The 480 can be a carbide base die, but the 500 is too big.

quote:

Originally posted by Lar45:
Okay, now here's a question for you.
Did you ever shoot any of the loads done with the Lee factory crimp die?

No, I only shot your gun the one time before you aquired the FCD.

The thing that struck me, as I looked over your shoulder, was the variation in flash and noise from shot to shot. We didn't have a chrono set up that day, but something was definitely wrong with the ignition (not to mention the duds and squibs). It may be that the surplus powder simply doesn't like cold weather. One of the many rumors going around about WC820 is that it's WW295, which was pulled from the market for exactly the type of problems that we experienced.

If the load truly shoots better with the FCD, it's fair to ask why? Maybe it shoots better with a squashed bullet base? Maybe it shoots better with a weaker bullet pull? Or maybe the standard crimp was flawed in some way so that the FCD was actually an improvement?

The main difference between the FCD and an old fashioned crimp die is the resizing ring. The roll crimp itself was ordinary on the FCD I tested (44 mag). If the tolerances are such that the resizing ring sizes the cartridge, then it's going to have to squash the bullet base, which can't be good. If the tolerances are such that the resizing ring doesn't size the cartridge, then the finished product will be no better or worse than a standard roll crimp.

IMHO, Lee should abandon the resizing ring and offer a collet crimp instead. If they would do that, I would stop badmouthing the FCD.

Paul, I have some of the Lee 325's cast if you want them, PM me your address. I tried to run some through my .477 sizer die last night and the gascheck wouldn't crimp on the base.
I may have to beagle the mold out abit??

Here's my new toy.

Paul H said;

quote:

I got an e-mail from somebody that said he's getting 335 gr from the Lee mold with ww +tin.

Think that may have been me (under BABore). I hadn't actually dropped a bullet yet, but estimated what it would be. My bullets dropped the same as LAR45's, 322-323 grs. I guess Lee molds are built to an alloy similar to WW's. All of my Lyman molds drop heavy with WW's.

Paul I sent you a PM at 24hour with the data on my 480 load workups. Still have to do further testing, but 9.5 grs 231 and 20.0-21.0 grs 2400 look pretty good in my gun.

BA,

Yes, I got your PM. The accuracy you are getting is great! I've gotten good accuracy with 2400 in the lighter weight bullets, specifically a 335 gr swc pb (nei mold) and the 390 gr LFN pb (LBT).

I have your sample bullets boxed up, I just haven't gotten around to putting on a shipping label and getting it to the post office. Same deal for LAR.

I have my second mold milled down and they are dropping at 275gns. I beagled both of them out to about 479ish. Now I can crimp the gas check on the 325's.
If you want some, I need to know where to send them.
I got my gun out to the range today and shot it with the LEE 400's. It was almost dark so about all I did was go bang. I need to paint the front sight bright orange so I can see it.
I'm going back in the AM when I have light and can actually see the targets.

I never got a chance to chronograph those 476-325's this Sunday. Lots of clouds and rain. Shot a bunch at 100 yards to see how they would fly. The 9.5 grs of WW 231 opened up to 5 inches, but it could have been me. The 21.5 grs of 2400 shot a couple of 4 inch groups and the last of the day was 2 inches. That's typical of me. By the time I learn to keep my hold really consistent, I'm out of ammo.

I did work up some loads with WW 296 powder. Started at 26 grains and went to 27.5. Extraction and primers still looked good. I believe the Speer data takes a jacketed 325 gr bullet to 28.0 grains. Accuracy was pretty good too. The 26.0 gr load grouped a 1/2" cloverleaf at 25 yds. Testing was pretty limited though as I was just looking for maximum.

LAR45

I had some loose checks on my bullets too. They would turn, but not come off. My bullets are dropping at 0.4775". I ended up annealing the checks and that worked well. I put the whole 1,000 in a melting pot and heated them on a turkey fryer, stirring occasionally. When they turned blue/black I dumped them in a 50/50 water vinegar solution.

I got out last night and shot some of the short 275's.

It was late after we shot the rifles and had to turn on the headlights to see the target at 25yds. I loaded them with a CCI 300 and 7gns Unique in 480 cases.
At least they are going reasonably straight. I'll have to shoot some in the daylight.

Try around 10 grs of unique, the group should tigthen up noticaly. I find 9.7 gr of U is the magic load for 310-325 gr cast in my 480.

Based on my trip to the range today, I'd say ~11 gr of blue dot should do the trick for the 275's, and clock around 1000 fps. I've tried many variations of Unique and WAAP, and blue dot groups notably tighter. I'll weigh the charge to confirm the weight as I was going by my powder scale settings.

The blue dot just doesn't seem to burn consistantly at 10 gr or less, though is also pretty accurate albeit dirty. Seems like ~11 gr is just enough to get it burning well.

Edit, I weighed the charge this morning, actually it's 13 grs of blue dot. I also loaded up a box full of the swc's as well as some of the 275 lees to see how they shoot.

Just a quick update, I shot some of the short 275's and the 325 gc over 13 gr of blue dot today. The 275's didn't do so well, but the 325's shot very well. Darn, I'm thinking I just have to get one of them!

I finally got my Lee 476-325 loads across the chronograph last weekend. So far may three best loads all grouped under an inch at 25 yards and 2-4 inches at 100 yards.

476-325 (322 grs) sized 0.477
WW alloy, air cooled
Alox lube, MM dusting
CCI 300
WW 231 9.5 grs.
993.1 fps Avg. velocity
28.5 fps ES

476-325 (322 grs) sized 0.477
WW alloy, heat treated
Alox lube, MM dusting
CCI 350
Hercules 2400 21.0 grs
1,257.6 fps Avg. velocity
53.1 fps ES

476-325 (322 grs) sized 0.477
WW alloy, heat treated
Alox lube, MM dusting
CCI 350
WW 296 26.0 grs
1,294.7 fps Avg. velocity
29.5 fps ES

My 9 1/2" SRH is definetly a slow gun. Don't know why as the bore is super smooth at 0.4751". This weekend I'm going to work up a hotter load with WW 296. I went up to 27.5 grs with only moderate pressure signs. Accuracy didn't seem quite as good as 26 grains, but it may have been me. I'm thinking I could go up to 28.0 grs. Hotter loads of 2400 seemed to open up pretty good, so that loads looks like the best one. Its ES is pretty high, but it was very accurate at 100 yds, go figure.

Still having some problems with the Lee mold. I had to put in my own venting to get it to pour with straight WW's. Even went up to 850 F and still had some rounded bands about 30% of the time. The two cavities require different ladel techniques to even get somewhat acceptable result. I finally broke down and added about 1 1/2% tin to the mix. This worked out pretty well and I could pour good bullets at 725-750 F. The cavities still pour different and they have slightly different weights and spreads. Now I'm glad I marked them. With WW+Sn the front cavity drops bullets at 319.2 +/-0.8 grs. The rear cavity is 319.8 +/-0.4 grs. Out of 160 bullets I had 8 bullets rejected from rounded bands and 10 or so from inclusions or weight variance. I've been soting bullets by cavity and weighing them until I get some confidence in this POS mold. Added tin seems to be the best thing so far. I plan on opening up the sprue holes a bit as that seems to work on my larger caliber molds.