Things going great with the MS Model 39 I picked up from Whosale. Shooting 13 grains of Unique and getting 10 shot groups a little over an inch at 50 yards. With my eyesight and with military sights I was very impressed. Shot some 4227 as well and it didn't do too bad. I borrowed my chrony out so don't know the speed. Lots of fun. Bill.

Hi Bill! I hear good things about those "Poison Maggets' , I mean Moisin Nagants! - LOL I have one but haven't had the time ( or the brass) to wring it out. I really want the version without the bayonet- I have the m44 with the folding bayonet.

I hear tell the sights are always off to one side. Can this be true? Is yours zeroed? What bullet/what size?

I cannot imagine a cheaper shooter than these are. We go together! But a tough little gun- just ask the Wehrmacht on the Rusian front! I wouldn't mind to collect a bunch of these- just the brass is hard to come by. Dale

DE Hillyer,
Brass can be had from Midway etc... Also there is boxer loaded brass from S & B at around $8.00 box of 20. Graf and Sons have it also. Mark

I have shoot several of the M-N's, if the bore is good they will shoot cast very well. I use the Graf brass and found it to be very high quality. I've reloaded some of the cases 25 times and it's still going strong.

My M39 has been my most consistent cast bullet rifle. Mine has a Sako barrel and the bore is .310 It really likes the 311291 over 18 grains of SR4759 and the 311284 with a casefull of 5010. Actually, it will shoot about anything I put through it very well.

Winchester also makes brass or at least sells it under the Winchester brand. I have not seen any bulk but as loaded ammo. The last I bought was around eleven bucks a box I bought a 100 rounds of it. It reloaded good and I have heard some say it is the same brass as S&B if so I have had no problems with it including the primer pockets which I read at one time they had problems with S&B brass but this Winchester brand seems good to me. Jim

Yeah, I'm shooting a 311299 and using the Graff brass. Seems to have a deep primer pocket but it goes bang every time. Bore looks to be about .310 - .311 in the Mosin and I'm dropping at about .311 out of the mold. Sizing with a .312. This Lyman mold could be the best I ever had. Cast 100 last week and 85+ dropped at 190.7 + / - .3 grains. Kind of a pain weighing out Unique. That drops about + / - .2 to .3 grain. But the results are good. Got so excited that I have a 91/30, a 44 and a 38 coming from Aztec this week. But I don't expect the same accuracy as I am getting from the Finish Model 39. Got a military shoot next weekend in St Louis. Not sure if the 13 grains of unique will push a bullet out to 200 yards or not. Will check it out in the next couple days. Thanks, Bill.

That deep primer pocket on the Graf's brass seems to match most of the Milsurp loaded rounds I've seen. The berdan primers seem to set about as low as seated boxers tn the Graf brass. This may be "Chinese style" engineering. (make it EXACTLY the same on the outside.)

I haven't gotten my M44 out to the range yet; just got in 100 of the Graff brass and am ready to start loading. As to the deep primers, if these give any ignition problems, remember that firing pin protrusion is adjustable on the M-N's, by 1/2 turn at a time in the cocking piece nut (the "kits" that come with these have a little screwdriver tool thingie with gauging notches for the pin; it should come between the two middle notches on the side of the tool marked "0,75" and "0,95"). Proceed CAREFULLY, WEAR SAFETY GLASSES, and check for any sign of primer piercing or gas leak from the pin imprint. floodgate

Sirs: I can report no problems with the Graff russian brass with near max j-loads and winchester large rifle primers. Unfortunately my 91/30 is .3145 in the groove and cast diameter is constrained by a tight neck diameter. Good Shooting. ned

mainboy.....winchester doesnt make brass for the mn. if you look closely at the loaded winchester ammo...you will note it is made in cz land.....and closer inspection will show it is a match for s&b brass but loaded with .308 dia bullets.......personally i like the nammo(lapua) brass best......4 mn's all with thier own 100 pcs of lapua.....(the rims seem to be off center( or the primer pockets are) in the sb brass....

All the primer pockets in the Win ammo I have look fine to me?

since i brought it up, i got out my tools and did some measuring.
the rim on my nammo/lapua brass runs plus or minus .0005" to the body. the win brass runs plus or minus .0075".....so it may not be as bad as i thought. what is troubling is case and neck splits in sb on as little as a single mild reload.
the head of the win/sb brass is stamped aprox .020 off center, which makes it "LOOK" sub-standard.
the wieght variation is significant in the sb/win, and not so in the lapua/nammo.
...for the math...5 boxes of sb 180 is aprox $40-45 plus shipping. this gives 100 pcs of brass, the lapua/nammo is $40 delivered from my source.....a bit more from midway.
not sure what the hornady brass is priced at or where it is made.

Will have to check out Midway for their brass. I bought this Win brass because it was handy at the local gun shop. I have reloaded them once with no problems and the brass looked good will post more if I have any problems. One thing I think though shooting milsurps is that some times the brass gets blamed for problems when the guns have chambers that may contribute to problems in low brass life. Of course not all milsurps may do this but I think some do. Jim

I am loathe to respond to many of the topics, but felt I might pass on a little personal experience on the subject of Mosins.

First a bit of trivia: I spoke to a Russian once on the correct pronunciation of Mosin (is it MOze'in, Moy'zin, or Moy'zeen?) MOze-in is correct.

Nagant was a Belgian. Belgians speak French and Flemish. Nagant is pronounced..NAY'gan.

The Finnish rifles are in a class by themselves and what the Finns actually did was take a sow's ear and turn it into a silk purse. About all they retained was the Mosin action and they improved that with a superior trigger. Their barrels are of superior materials and held to fine tolerances....this is why they shoot so damned well. Having owned Finnish Mosin's made by all the different arsenals, I can and will state emphatically, there is NO difference in quality in any of them. You can go elsewhere and read the fine print history, but Sako was nothing more than the Home Guard repair/rebuild shop, Tikka was a manufacturer and VKT was a government arsenal. The barrels they used came from different suppliers and eventually they made their own.

The Russian and satellite produced weapons are quite inferior tolerance-wise to the Finn products. The Russians made them to go bang and to be tough, whether they shot well or not made little difference to them. Just crank them out en masse and issue them to peasant soldiers (cannon fodder).

I have a couple of the M44's....one is Polish and the other Hungarian. The external workmanship is quite good but they shoot patterns. These short rifles are actually pikes with a barrel bored in them.

I own a Finn model 91 and 2 model 39's. I also had a model 28 until some fool offered me a vulgar amount of money for it.

The 39's will shoot with any contemporary military rifle of it's genre....i.e., the 1903 Springfield. That is a tall order, but the 39 is fully up to the task. None of the Mausers, excepting the Swedes are in this category and everything else is just an 'also ran'.

A load that my favorite 39 shoots into an inch or less at 100 yards is: 40 grains IMR 7828 under a 314299, sized .311, this crammed into a Norma case and ignited with a CCI 250 primer.

Jumptrap, While I agree with your glowing report of most finns I have seen some that were not taken care of and when bought here surplus had inferior bores ( 39's ) yet were advertized as having good to excellent bores. I saw one my gunsmith ordered for a guy that the bore was so rough that he sent it back and it was advertized as excellent. On your other comments on the satelite and russian guns the 44 poles from what I have seen shoot darn good and have a good fit and finish. At least the one that I own and the 2 other poles I have shot owned by my friends were like this. The russian 1916 hex 91 I own is a good shooter also. Maybe not as quite as good as the finn's but still good shooters. My next rifle will be a finn but I will buy it where I can see it first not get it mail order. Jim

Jim,

I have bought all my 39's from UP Guns in Michigan...that guy always sold me just what he advertised. If he says the bore is excellent and the outside only 50% blue....that's what you get. I have always bought what is sold as 'select grade' guns and generally get my money's worth.

I have NEVER seen a Finn with a shitty bore unless it has been owned by a moron on this side of the Atlantic who shot surplus Russian ammo in it and didn't have sense enough to clean it. As they come from Finland, the bores I have seen regardless of exterior condition have at least 'very good'.

My Pole and Hunkie carbines look well made and I think the Hungarian was brand new when I got it. Still, it shoots patterns.

Slug a Russian barrel sometime. As you shove the slug down the bore, you'll hit at least one and maybe several tight and loose spots. The bore may appear new in condition, but internal tolerances generally suck. However, if they shoot good, it doesn't make a bit of difference, they usually don't however.

If you want a really good Mosin, pony up about $200 and get a nice 39 or 28-30.

If your pal wants to trade that Finn with the horrible bore for a Pole 44, email me.

Jumptrap, Still kicking my self missed a 28/30 that was on commission at the gun shop for 60 bucks. I would have put it on layaway but you cannot do that with guns that are on commision there and my mother was at deaths door so I felt I could not afford the 60 bucks at the moment. I did learn a few things about what to look for to see what a 28 is from my gunsmith he bought the gun after I told him it was there. I am on SS disability so money is usually tight but I will keep my eyes open for another finn when I can I guess I will have to start saving a buck here and there so I can. THe finn at the gun shop was marked a 91/30 finn so I did not know it was a 28. Now I know what to look for so that mistake will not happen again. I am sure some finn's are still out there like this one just have to keep looking. The gun with the bad bore was sent back by the Gunsmith as he did not want it or did the customer he ordered it for. I saw the bore he showed it to me and it was rough. He ordered it from Century if I remember correctly and sent it back to them. Jim

well, we all have horror stories to tell.....mine is a winchester 54 for $125! Went to bank to get the money from my savings and the man sold it before i could get back. That was several years ago.

I understand being on disability....I've been off work for 6 months now, money is scarce.

What I started doing is getting rid of the ho-hum guns and dumping the accumulated cash into one good gun. My best and kindest advice is to stay away from the bargain Mosins and save for a nice 39. One good one is better than a closet full of duds. I like the Finnish Mosin better than any military bolt rifle i own.....my Swedes draw dust and the 39 goes shooting.

I own one 8mm military rifle, an FN49 and I just bought 2800 rounds of Turk ammo to burn up in it. I sold the Mauser 98's after the Finn's came home with me.

Century is the main importer of all surplus in this country and they parcel out rifles to other small dealers. These smaller outfits go to Century and pick through the tons of guns and rake off the cream. That is why they sell for more but you come closer to getting a decent rifle this way.

Trust me, buy a nice model 39 and you'll throw rocks at all the rest (except an equivalent 28/30!).

From what I seen of that 28 that is what I would like to get.