Hi guys, I get questions sometimes with people wondering if they need to worry about the lube melting and running down into the powder if the ammo was left on the dash of the car or whatever.
I lubed a couple of bullets and put them in a zip lock bag along with some Oregon Trail Lazer Cast bullets and put the bag on the dash while we went fishing for the day.




The Lazer Cast has the green lube and has clearly melted out of the groove.
The red is my Carnauba Red, the Black is an experimental softer no-heat lube, both stayed put.

I think that as long as the lube grooves are inside the neck, that even if it got too hot, it shouldn't cause any problems.
If you keep the ammo in a box with the bullets down, it should give an even greater margin of safety.

Thoughts on this?
Has anyone ever had a powder fouling problem from melted lube?

Lars

Been using 3 of your lubes (BAC, XLOX 2500+ and Carnauba Red) in my RPM test. All are excellent lubes BTW. I concure that lube will not melt out of the grooves as long as the lube grooves are inside the case neck.

I did have a powder fouling problem one time with a long Lovern style bullet loaded in a short case neck. I was shooting at 600 yards laying prone with me, the rifle and the ammo in the Sun. While it was in the mid 70s the 15th shot of what was to be a 20 shot string sounded strange and dropped low off the target frame. The next two shots did the same thing. I kept the 20th shot and pulled the bullet and found the lube (Tamarack, a soft 50/50 lube) had melted out of the grooves and made a glob in the case with the powder.

I will seat some bullets with 1 lube groove below the case neck but only if a dacron filler is used. I also take great pains to keep ammo out of the Sun. Probably will switch to your Carnauba Red for HV loads.

Have you any experience with Carnauba Red in sub freezing weather? Some lubes throw the first shot pretty wild in such temperatures.

Larry Gibson

Lars lubes are good and I recommend them to all.

Hey Larry,
I haven't done much shooting lately in the cold winter months. Is that the first shot in a clean and cold barrel, or just the cold barrel?

LAR45,

I use your Carnauba Red for everything now ... 308 rifle, 9mm, 38 Super, .357 Mag, 9,3x62, .375 H&H, 41 Mag, 44 Mag, .45 ACP, .458 AR, and .470 NE. Is simpler to stock just one lube.

Have had no problem with the lube melting or with alloy fouling even at higher velocities. Does require a heater to apply if done on a cold day. Have seen no problems with shooting it on a cold day (0F or so).

Have seen lube melting with NRA Formula Alox/Beeswax over the years ... is not as good a lube as Carauba Red!

Thanks for the kind words guys.
Sorry if the pics aren't showing up, the server my website is on is haveing difficulties.

I'm working on a no-heat lube. I have the BAC which is a mix of the Red and my 50-50, but I'd rather have one that is 100% Non-Toxic like the Red. I guess that means more time at the range, oh darn

Lar45

That's with a fouled bore gone cold where the lube residue gets hard. 1st shots out of clean barrel usually go to group or I change loads. Sorry about not making the distinction.

Larry Gibson

Lar45,
I have question that might be even more important.
Will your alox make it to Texas this time of year without melting. I keep my ammo cool but I can't do anything about the post office or UPS.

The only problem I've had with lube killing powder is in my early casting days when I tried using automotive grease. Oil migrated out of the grease and oiled the powder.

I have recently considered that my homemade mixture of various waxes, lanolin and Liquid Alox might melt in a hot car. I'm going to have to test it.

If the bullets are loaded, I don't see how the lube can get past the driving band to contact the powder.

BTW, I just found a couple of .44 Specials I loaded up with the grease-lubed bullets circa 2000. With a mallet and rod handy, I shot them. They went "BANG!" most alacritously. They were from the same batch that had some squibs and stuck one bullet in the barrel, though.

Had an accidental test of Carnauba Red on Thursday. Put a box of 100 .459" 500 gr cast rifle boolits in the car and went to do some donation work on the local Church network.

Am installing 100 mb ethernet from the parsonage to the main building and in the main building am putting in WiFi and some ethernet segments.

Well ... had some cable problems and time slipped by, and it was a REALLY hot afternoon ... 102F in the car for more than a little while.

Opened the box to check them before passing them to a friend who's going to test them for me in a Lott. Rifle bullets are fine. Lube did not move at all.

Good stuff!

Thanks for the feedback.

I've had some marble sized pieces of lube sitting on a paper at my desk for over 3 years now. It took about 2 years for a light oil spot to appear under the 50-50. They are all still soft and pliable. I try to keep the lubes at a high temp for atleast 12 hours before I pour any. I think it helps all of the waxes and oils to combine more completly.

lube on the base is what kills powder. If you leave it on when sizing or if you store bullets in the heat some will migtrate to the base and it doesnt take much to cause problems. Tumble lubed bullets are a problem in the heat too. I once loaded about 2000 38s that were tumble lubed and they were stored for a couple years and about half of them were duds.

Tumble lubed with LLA?!

That's a new one on me.

yup it was with tumble lube bought from lee. I pulled some of the bullets and the powder was a hard clump in some of them. I had another batch made at the same time with the same bullet ((the 105 lee swc) coventionaly lubed on the star and didnt have even one missfire with them. So at least in my experience alox will deaden powder if its left in contact with it long enough.(

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
lube on the base is what kills powder. If you leave it on when sizing or if you store bullets in the heat some will migtrate to the base and it doesnt take much to cause problems. Tumble lubed bullets are a problem in the heat too. I once loaded about 2000 38s that were tumble lubed and they were stored for a couple years and about half of them were duds.

How long did you dry those boolits before loading them, Lloyd?

John why don't you just ask Lloyd if he is stupid. I'm positive he knows about the drying period.

I'm not calling Lloyd stupid, Joe. I am interested in the specifics of this. First time I've heard of LLA causing powder contamination. Hasn't happened to me yet.

John I didn't say you called Lloyd stupid. I know from reading a good number of forums that I've seen nobody ask about letting the LLA dry before reloading the bullets. Lloyd, in my opinion, is a cut above most reloaders in knowledge. I bet he'll reply with some extraordinary drying process before loading the bullets.

Yeah. Lloyd's been at this game for a long time. I'm just scratching my head. I don't think thoroughly dried LLA could flow out and goo up the powder. I'm thinking solvent had to have oozed or outgassed from it to cause the problem.

Well you know John, Alox is in the family of rust proofing or under coating for cars and I've seen that stuff ooze out in hot temperatures. I noticed lately shooting in this very hot weather we've been having that my empty cases on my bench get hotter in the sun then when I fired them. I can barely pick them up. So I can see how LLA or any other soft lube can ooze.

When LLA's dried for a good while, it's pretty hard stuff. I've often loaded it when the last coat's less than 24 hours old, though...

just a note to say that Lars' lube stays put. I had about a dozen rounds left over from last year's Quigley Rifle Match. Loaded them in May of 2007, and they got misplaced in the unloading. I shot them this year along with fresh loaded stuff, and they shot into the group from 350yds to 784yds.
My brother shoots the BP in his Shiloh Sharps 50-90, and I use it in my 38-90, 40-65, and all of the 45-70's with BP.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...