Bfrshooter..Man..You have a heavy load to carry with that child! I have to deal with Bi-Polar folks from time to time and have a little idea of the difficulty. However, I can't begin to imagin what that would be like on a daily bases with somebody I loved. Dealing with ordinary teens is hard enough..but throw bi-polar in the mix and what a problem. I would not attempt to offer you advice and counsel, but I have not walked in those shoes. All I can say is you have my respect, concern and prayers.

Oldest grandson asked me to teach him how to reload. Those kids will sit at the bench and shoot EVERY stinkin' round they can get their hands on, but will not clean or even offer to clean the guns. Anyway, I told him great, here's the NRA Reloading Guide, start reading. That was WAY too effort, so we are kinda on hold right now. He wanted to know if I had the video so he didn't have to read the book. I will stand firm on this. You read the book, we talk about it, or you do not sit at my loading bench. What he does not know is that I have enough stuff for him and his brother to build their own bench. They love to shoot and this is a good brain exercise for them - just have to find a way to channel all that stored up energy! Next younger grandson is chomping at the bit, so I may let him have the book and 'intimidate' the older one with his vast knowledge. You wanna shoot? You'll learn to reload or you won't have any ammo. I will supply the components while you learn [in trade for chores - easy stuff]. ANYTHING that requires effort is verboten, including school, especially reading. I'm not sure, but I think people are in information overload these days, and it really affects the kids badly. They are not bad kids, just overwhelmed by it all. If you can't read, you have a problem. I could go on about why I don't teach anymore at the local community college, too, but, I done rambling now. sundog

Looks like it is about time to let Christ help a little. That's the only thing that works around here (finally), with my two sons, who are young enough to be my grandchildren. My wife, Pat, is a type 1 diabetic, and we are indeed lucky to have any children at all. But, with our prayers being answered (in contrast to medical facts), it cannot be called luck by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, we are talking years of "faith, hope, & charity(love)". ... felix

Lazy, Felt the same way about my son when he was a teenager. He used to get really mad when I forced him to
help. He's 27 now, married, father, homeowner and still not up to what I know he is capable of. BUT, last year he told me that he now understands why I pushed, not to be
mean, but to get him to do better than Dad. Only one
thing I never could get used too. He has always had they 'eye', outshoot me with everything he picks up, bow, rifle, pistol, shotgun, pool...

In reality it's not the kid it's lazy parents and worthless schools. My oldest Grandson is not worth the powder it would take to blow him up, so I avoid him like the plague. The other two grandsons have a fighting chance. They are not in public schools, the mothers are involved with their education and socializing, the fathers are also envolved with teaching them to be boys as well as teaching the boys that hands and butts are never far apart.
Jim

Bfrshooter we're all pulling for you. You've rec'd some excellent responses here which I believe speaks to the quality of this group.

I have no magic bullets either-- talking about how to live and doing it are two different realities. And dealing with a situation like this surely wears on a person. I'm an idealist at heart with a life viewpt of a pragmatic cynic [I chuckle when I read that too..]. So I am suggesting trying to walk in this child's shoes-- for he's still that. Try to understand how he sees the world and where he's been. Because he can't do this per your world-- the real one. From what I've read, O Mark squarely nailed the situation per the meds. His life likely would be greatly improved and manageable if he could be made to understand what he faces down the road & how meds could help-- tell him the people lining the streets of the big cities likely carry his condition in great numbers. Maybe try those video games with him-- let him clean your clock and laugh about it. One chunk of common ground could be a city block for the two of you.

Charger, I agree and have tried patience and understanding. I try to just talk to him and find it hard when he immediately jumps down my throat. I was thawing deer steaks for supper yesterday and he came in the kitchen and pointed to a pizza add. He asked if I was thinking what he was thinking. I said I am making steak and he about blew my eardrums out. He will never eat what we cook and never eats at the table. He only eats what he wants and expects take out every day. If any of you had to live with him for long, he would be a statistic. I have more patience then you can imagine. I can sit and cut checkering for 12 hours straight or file metal parts for hours. If I screw something up, I will make a new piece right away without getting angry. My wife is even more calm, but he causes her sress you can not imagine. She never loses her temper with him but suffers greatly because of it.
I like to let him shoot clays but if he is missing a lot he gets angry. I dare not say anything to him to help his shooting. He screams at me and says to stop harping at him. I have no idea on how to teach him anything.
And he will not shoot anything without me being present to watch him every second. He has had the hunter safety course but seems to think he knows more. I take him fishing with us and if he is not catching, he wants to leave right away. Everything has to be his way only. He has no regard to the relaxation we are looking for by floating around whether we catch fish or not. This is no fun!

Exactly what worries me! How will he do when unleashed upon the world. As far as playing games, no way, he can reach higer levels then anyone ever has and screams and cusses if something gets him. He is on meds but I keep telling the wife to see about an adjustment. We have tried every way to reach him so he has some understanding but he just tunes us out. Anger his his comeback to anything said to him in any tone or way. I am 66 and won't be able to do much with him when he is older. He will not be told that he has some responsibility for the outcome of his life. If he won't listen to instruction on shooting, which he loves to do, what hope is there on the important things in life?
I really appreciate all of your responses even though this was a little off topic. Thanks to all of you.

Curmudgeon: Golly! I thought my High School class was the only one ever thought about putting a wagon on the school roof (Halloween, 1946, if I remember). Bev (my wife) was in on it, too. floodgate

Hay Jumptrap! That brieristic approach might just work in your local. And, after all West Virgina is just next door.

We are raising a bipolar grandson too, and I know exactly what you are talking about. We have found when he is not absorbing information it does no good to discuss the matter with him. Usually if we leave him alone for a while he comes around. The things that work on most (normal) people wont work on a bipolar kid. Be sure he stays on his medication. He is probably worse when he is tired. When he starts being intractible, it is time for a break. Shut down, go home and give him a rest.

Good luck.

BFRshooter...I checked back on this thread and noticed the words "bi-polar" is your second post. That explains alot. As you know "bi-polar" or as it was formerly known "manic-depressive" is a malfunction of brain chemistry. It is a physical illness and not a behaviour problem. Yes, I know the illness results in behaviour problems, but so does a head ache, or PMS. I trust he is getting proper medical attention. Living with such folks can be a real trial, and many families kick them out to make it on their own. Many of the homeless folks wandering this country are bi-polar folks who were just too big a problem for their families to handle. My prayers are with you both.

ArkyPete..Learning to deal with difficult people is one of the major indicators of spiritual and emotional maturity. I don't consider avoidance and rejection to be a valid response. I have not been a part of a 12 step program, but have refered many people to them.

However, if part of their program is "me first..and me only..and kick the difficulty people out so they won't desturb my innter peace, I will have to rethink my feelings toward those kinds of groups.

My inner serenity and peace is far from the most important thing in the world and I am not the center of the universe.

Pardon me for being so direct, but I cannot possibly disagree more with your total approach. To be certain you cannot help somebody if you are destroyed in the process. But I am not that fragil. Other folks can't get me spun up and make me loose my balance unless I let them. I can keep a pretty even life even in the middle of the worse S&#* storm around me. I din't learn to do that by avoiding difficult people and running family off because they had problems. You can't learn to deal with problem people in a positive manner, but avoiding them or driving them out of your life. Life is not about running and hiding in a bubble of serenity, it is about growing and learning. As least that is my opinion.