I am the high bidder on a Lyman #470216 mold. This will be my first time casting my own bullets. I have been using bought .452 250gr and .459 405gr cast bullets for over a year now and figured that casting my own for the 470 nitro would save me some serious cash over buying factory bullets. My questions are: would wheel weights be suficiently hard to hold up to target pratice and the ocasional whitetail. Or do you feel that they would be too soft to be pushed at 2000fps. By the way the mold is suppose to throw a .475" 516gr slug. Also what would you guys recommend as a bullet lube for this round. Since this is the same diameter as the rifle bore I would guess that sizing isn't necessary. Can you recomend some equipment to get started with. Have been looking at the various bottom pour melting pots with adjustable thermostat but not sure if the 10# capacity would be enough or if I need to get the 20# one. Any and all advice is apreciated. Thanks in advance.

midway sells the lyman casting kit for 99.00 this has a 10lb electric pot (mini mag),4500 sizer luber,lyman manual,dipper.ingot mould,as to how fast you can drive ww ?,some of the heavy hitters on this forum need to speak up,i am new to this casting also,if the dia of the lyman mould is .475 maybe we can trade some bullets your 516gr for my 460gr or 435gr -dia-.476,i have a 475 gnr coming would like to try a (big) bullet,thanks

You did not say if the mould is gas checked bullets. If it is, you are going to have to find GCs, and it is not likely to be be easy or cheap. If it is not, a velocity of 1500-1600 fps is more likely. You might be able to up that a little with a soft GC or some other form of base protector, the best lube you can find, and a harder alloy.

I'd go with a dipper and a cast iron pot over a gas burner of some kind because you are not going to get even 100 bullets out of a ten pound pot after you subtract culls, sprues, and a bit left in the pot when you run low on metal weight to fill out that big mould.

My best advice is to feel your way. Get your mould and cast a batch with WW and a little tin added. Mic them and see that they are an easy fit in a fired case. Load a few up to about 1400 fps and see how they shoot.

Any problem you run into, there's likely to be someone here with an answer. Cast bullets are a game for patient men.

The bullet isn't made for a gas check. In fact when I found the item up for auction I looked on Lyman's web site and couldn't find this bullet listed anywhere. I gave them a call and they directed me to a fella by the name of Mike that has a gunshop up north and is the expert on old Lyman molds. He told me the stats on the mold and said even though he deals in that kind of item he has never seen one. So I promply put in a bid and including shipping and ins. Have a mold on the way that will throw a .475 516gr slug for $64.30. I don't plan on pushing bullets aat 2000fps all the time will down load for comfortable shooting but want to be certain that if needed the same bullets can be pushed a little harder without making any changes. Right now my big bore is a 45-70 pushing 405gr WFNBB bullets pushed by either 38gr RL7 or the the around the yard load of 11gr red dot. Where does one find a sizer/ lube die for this big a bullet? Thanks.

Here's a link for custom sizers. And it's doubtful you'll reach 2000 fps with a PB bullet with any accuracy.

http://www.sizingdie.com/

Thanks for the heads up on the sizing die.

I'd agree that you're better off with a gas checked bullet. I have a custom Ballisticast .475" mold that produces a 460 gr gc bullet. A buddy is using them in his 470 NE pistol, and as I recall he was driving them 1800 fps from the 15" barrel. I cast them from wheelweights and water quench them to harden them.

You could have balisticast cut that mold even deeper for a heavier bullet. Gas checks aren't a problem, and aren't even that exspensive ~$25/1000. For lube, LBT blue or Appache blue would work well. Stilwell in AZ will open up a sizing die, or make a custom one. I bored one out myself, and size .476". You could have lee make you a custom sizer for a nominal charge.

I have written to efryman and he is the one who gave me a hankering for a 470 NE. I wonder if in cutting the mold deeper they could make it accept a gas check on the new part? By the way if anyone comes across a set of 470 NE dies let me know please I'm following a lead now but it may fall through. Thanks.

[ 01-21-2003, 04:17: Message edited by: outlawsix ]

On my mold, it was their 400 gr mold, but they just sunk it extra deep, extending the gas check shank. No reason they couldn't go deeper still for a 500 gr weight. I'd have to check my mold block, but I'm pretty sure there is room for a heavier bullet.

I tried to do a web search to find the photo of my bullets at the linebaugh seminar last year, but the links keep coming up with server not found.

With your existing mold, it wouldn't be possible to add a gas check to the mold, but it should be possible to load a gas check in the case behind the bullet. I did try making some shot loads in the 480 using gas checks to keep the shot colum in place.

Well got the mold in today and guess what. The bullet that was cast by the seller measures .472 and weighs 560grs. I guess I won't need to size now since it is .003 smaller than bore. So much for the gas check. I've heard that certain alloys shrink more than others after casting, I hope that is what happened here. I've read in handloader that bullets for the whitworth hexagonal barrel were later cast round and that they would expand up to bore diameter when fired to get a good seal. Now the question is if this is how this mold was designed then I'm quessing I can't use too hard a lead alloy or it won't bump up to fit the bore. Or do you feel that I should try a harder alloy that won't shrink as much if this is what is going on.So what lead alloy do you guys recomend. I guess it doesn't have to go to fast after all at 560gr it will punch a hole through anything that walks.

[ 01-23-2003, 23:33: Message edited by: outlawsix ]

.472 ain't gonna work.

I'd find some pure linotype, cast a batch and see what I got. You just might get .475 with lino. Without knowing what the sample was cast from, you can't really tell.

I would not put any faith in smokeless powder bumping up even a very soft bullet. Black has a different pressure curve which is why the example you cited works.

A really good machinist can fit a spacer plate to an existing mould to make it a GC design but, unless you are such a machinist, a custom mould would likely be cheaper.

Lapping a mould out a couple of thousands is possible, and we have folks here who swear by it.

Were it me, I'd sell it to the specialist dealer you mentioned and have exactly what I wanted made.

How would I go about lapping the mold if indeed after casting with linotype it is too small?

"I would not put any faith in smokeless powder bumping up even a very soft bullet. Black has a different pressure curve which is why the example you cited works"

JFWIW-- this is not correct. Obturation which primarily is compression of the slug due to chamber pressure and inertia relative to burn time-- if anything is more reliable with smokeless. The burn time of BLK is slower and the resulting psi is generally much less. Yes BLK does produce slightly higher initial psi-- but that curve is much longer than smokeless. Given the same alloy strength and chamber pressures the obturation would be so close between the two as to seem the same. Thing is-- BLK loadings most often peak at 10-13,000 psi-- which is very low in smokeless terms. I recently recovered some 45 caliber 500 gr slugs shot at long range this loading 24 grs of 4759 making around 22,000 psi estimated. Those .446" nose dia's had obturated to past the .452 land height of the bore and almost bottoming out for full groove dia. This shooting aged ww alloy at around 13 bhn. BLK is thought of as an effective obturating fuel because most often it is used with pure lead alloys having a bhn of just under 5. Try loading some fast burning smokeless with that pure lead to around the same velocity as BLK-- you'll get all the obturation of BLK and then some. The very reason jacketed bullets came into the scene is to handle the increased psi of smokeless and resultant over obturtion of pure lead.

Don't mess with the mold! You have a perfect candidate for paper patching (ok ideal would be .468"-.470")! Size it .476", and it'll take care of your need for a gas check as well.

Thanks fellas I was really begining to feel like I had a mold that I couldn't do anything with. I remember in one of my recent issues of handloader that Ross has a pretty extensive article about paperpatching. Will look into that. As far as what alloy to use with out paper to bump up to size and what hardness should I stay under. Thanks again fellas.

Just heard from the previous owner and he said that he used just WW for the bullet. So now the big question can WW shrink .003". I know it varies but are they known to shrink any.

outlawsix, FWIW was it me, I'd Beagle that mold before I tried anything else. You should be able to get 2-4 thou.larger easy. If it doesn't work, you aren't out anything. Lots easier than paper patching. That's the aluminum tape trick. Should be in the archives. Regards, Woody

I ran a search and found it. Sounds like a place to start.And like you said if it doesn't work just take it off and proceed to phase two. Alright here is another dumb question how do I season the mold. The reason I'm asking is beceause this one looks new. It is steel, well it attracts a magnet so I assume its steel, but it has no rust, the spru plate is brightly blued top and bottom. And there are no traces of lead anywhere on it. The only thing I see, although very slight. Is that in the bullet cavity about half the length has a case colored efect. Thanks.

[ 01-24-2003, 17:16: Message edited by: outlawsix ]

outlawsix, everyone has a little different method for break in. For Lyman, I clean 'er all up using Ed's Red and wipe dry. Then check for alignment and alignment pin seating. Maybe very lightly chamfer the alignment pin holes. I take off the sprue plate and round off the edges. Then using 600 grit emory paper on plate glass, smooth up the bottom. While the sprue plate is off, "break" the edges of the mold halves, stay away from the cavities. May do the top also, but usually wait until I see if the base needs more venting. Put 'er back together, adjust the sprue plate and clean it with carb cleaner and/ or brake cleaner. I usually cover the mold top and sprue plate bottom with no. 2 pencil. Heat the mold and THEN go to casting. No 2 molds are alike, so ya just got to cast and see what it likes. Some will smoke the mold at the start. I don't except with Lee. I like the melt hot and the mold hot, once I'm there and if I keep getting wrinkled boolits and I'm convinced the mold is clean, I'll smoke it. Sometimes it seems like forever before you get good boolits and sometimes they come quick. Gettin' a little windy here. Get yer feet wet, give 'er a try and report back. Regards, Woody

Thanks for the info. Yesterday I went north of here to Thibodeaux and visited a fella by the name of Gary Thibodeaux. He casts bullets commercially. He looked at my mold and gave me a hands on as to how to prep the mold before casting. He also gave me some pointers on casting itself. Now it is just a matter of picking up the other things needed to get started. For now I need Lyman large handels, thermometer, and bottom pour ladel. I have a cast iron pot and a propane burner we use for boilong seafood. I figure once I get a few cast and see what size they will actually be I will determine from there whats next. If it doesn't make the .475 or.476 like I need I will either have to try beageling or lap the mold till it produces the size I need. Figured I would start with some linotype since it doesn't shrink much and see what happens. By the way if any of you have an old handel, bottom pour ladel, or thermometer laying around let me know. Thanks again.