Had to have a new toy so bought a thermal scope and mounted it on my M70. Got it semi-zeroed (close enough) and went to the ranch tonight. Sat for about 2 hours and listened to the hogs squealing and generally raising heck about 250 yds west of me. Finally got up and took the rifle and my shooting sticks for a stroll. They were right where I had "earmarked" them to be. Neat as heck to be able to walk up within 50-60 yds of them, then set the rifle on the sticks and BAM! About a 150-lb sow down, but no more. Shooting pigs on the run with a RH bolt-action when you are a lefty isn't easy. I think an AR is in my future.

Sounds like a winner.

George

Nice work...lots of good AR calibers to choose from, have fun.

Hunting pigs with a thermal is really addicting! I borrowed one from my son - then had to get my own after playing with it for a couple of nights - and shot over 50 hogs last year with it.

It is amazing how close you can get to hogs on a dark night. They even stand on the side of the 2-track and watch my truck as I drive by - figuring they are invisible (which they were pre-thermal).

Interesting to see all the other wildlife that had previously been undetected. I have found and approached to within a few feet of what turned out to be field mice, rabbits, fox, bobcats, ringtails, deer, and the neighbor's longhorns - by catching a glimpse of heat through vegetation. You obviously have to make positive identification of your target before engaging!

Night time is a whole different proposition with a thermal!

Acer--I'm learning what you talked about. NIghtime with a thermal is different. Strange seeing a rabbit at 100 yds, and a skunk at 200+

quote:

I think an AR is in my future.

Consider the 6.5 Grendel. It is my favorite. Low recoil and it just whacks um.

If you really want a hammer, go with the AR10 platform in 308. More recoil, but also more power and probably more range, if that's really important.

For my purposes, the 6.5 Grendel is just right, but I use other calibers and rifles too, such as 8x57 etc., because I can. Fortunately I don't have to choose just one, but if I did it would be the Grendel, in a compact AR15.

I opted for the .223 due solely to ammo availability. I am also shooting at 300 yds and under and the .223 will be fine. If I see it won't get the job done at 300 then my max range will be less.

Ammo availability is the standard argument favoring the 223. Also, I've read/heard the 300 yard thing before too. I never found either adequate to persuade me to use a 223.

I generally order four or five boxes of the Hornady 6.5 Grendel ammo at a time, and right now I've got about ten boxes on the shelf. Last time I looked the price was less than $25 per box of 20, which I consider very reasonable. The price keeps creeping up.

Here's a sample:

Hornady Custom Ammunition 6.5 Grendel 123 Grain SST Box of 20

https://www.midwayusa.com/prod...-grain-sst-box-of-20

There are several good options in factory loads for HUNTING with the 6.5 Grendel. I just chose the Hornady 123 gr SST and stayed with it, partially because my rifle is sighted in for it, and it's so darn accurate. And it works very well on deer.

On hogs, I'm very careful, and thus far I've only taken shots 100 yds or less, and only when I can make a precise shot right behind the ear, broadside. But I'm sure it will work with any proper bullet placement. I'm looking for DRT, and just any bullet placement can't be counted on for that. Even a 223 would be sufficient for the behind the ear, 100 yds or less. Even FMJ would probably work. But why?

The thing is that the options for real HUNTING ammo, for deer and hogs, are no more readily available for the 223 than they are for the 6.5 Grendel. For one thing, the 6.5 Grendel is available in one twist rate as far as I know.

The 223 comes in a variety of twist rates and it's definitely not one size fits all. It takes a fast twist rate to use a heavy enough bullet in the 223 to even think about performance at 300 yds. That fact narrows the HUNTING ammo selection even further. Then not all ammo even in the same bullet weight will shoot to the same zero. So, basically, you have the same options as I do. One proven load.

If I had 300 yds in mind as an option, (which I don't) I would definitely go with the 6.5 Grendel.

I have doubts that a real HUNTING bullet will even open up at 300 yds in a 223. And the energy level is probably in the 22 LR category at that range. I could look it up, but so can you. But of course that would challenge your myth.

The real problem with the 223 is that there are very few people who go to the trouble of selecting the right bullet that has the best probability of a one-shot kill, yet they attribute super powers to the 223. It's a myth making weapon.

It seems clear to me that if one is really interested in 300 yd one shot kills, not necessarily DRT but down and dead reasonably close by, then the 223 wouldn't be the choice in the first place. I mean, really, there's 20 rounds per box - four or five to get sighted in, then fifteen dead hogs. How many hogs do you need to shoot?

My nephew has a 223 AR15, and he and his buddies often go after hogs at dusk feeding in the nearby fields, at ranges way out there. He has permission from the local farmers who consider the hogs pests and just want them shot. I hear the sounds of 20 or 30 rounds. I try to remember to call him the next day and find out what they got. At first I expected to hear that he was busy with butchering a hog. Lately I call just to annoy him, and listen to the latest excuse.

I have yet to receive a report of an actual hog down, except small ones. And often they are finished with multiple shots, and the complaint is they weren't worth butchering because of the gut shots. The general narrative is something like "I rolled a big one, but he got away".

He's always coming up with some deal he got on 200 rounds of this or that factory ammo, in FMJ. I don't know if he's hunting with that stuff, but he is cheap, and seems to have no concept of zeroing in for a specific bullet and weight nor twist rates. He certainly won't buy some premium hunting bullets, because he would have to pay for one box what he could buy 100 rounds of the other stuff for.

In my experience and observations, he's the typical 223 shooter.

And he won't listen to his uncle. He even thinks I should GIVE him my 2nd 6.5 Grendel upper. His logic is - why do I need two? If shooting hogs with something other than 223 is important to me, then I should donate to the cause.

How annoying do you suppose that is to me?

Well, it's so annoying that I won't let him hunt deer or hogs with that 223 off one of my stands or on my side of the property at all, nor will my brother in law.

Part of the reason I don't want him to shoot a hog with a 223 off my stand is that I don't want a wounded hog to run off and die and then stink anywhere nearby. That's what is likely to happen.

I have a far different perspective on hogs. I consider them big game, and in fact they are much more difficult to hunt. I could have shot 20 deer for the one hog I got so far. I bait them with corn, and the "hunting" doesn't get good until about February when they get hungry since the surrounding fields are bare.

I've sat on the stand till dark at least 20 times, waiting to be in the right place at the right time and the right hog. Before dark - that's my goal. I see many deer at dusk, but few hogs.

Part of the reason I've got hogs is because they are harassed so much in the surrounding neighborhood. Definitely the corn makes the difference.

Anyway, I've shown my nephew how to do it, and now he wants to hunt my stand, since he's seen the pictures of the large ones coming in. Last year I loaned him my Armalite 308 carbine hog whacker. He got one, but it took two shots. He's not a precision shooter, and has little patience. I told him the routine. First the sows with piglets will arrive, then the shooters will get greedy and run in. Just wait and choose one about 125 lbs. No - he shot the first sow to appear, and wounded it at that and had to shoot again.

Damn whippersnappers - can't tell um nuttin.

Win 64 grn Deer Season XP factory load.
Vel 3020
energy 1300 ft .pds
300 yds 2100 fps
energy 628 ft pds.
Deadly with a broadside shot 125-150 yds.
After that ???? I wouldn't attempt it myself.

Most all of my hunting spots are wooded with only occasional open pasture, so I am a "spot and stalk" guy.

As far as the lethality goes---I can't begin to count how many pigs I've killed with my present .22-250 shooting 55 gr Ballistic Tips at 3550 fps. Stick it in their ear and they are DRT. But---haven't shot one past 125 yds either.

As far as them running off and stinking---my landowner's rule is "shoot the sow first but don't let the boar get away."

Per Hornady data:

6.5 Grendel 123gr SST factory load.

MV 2590 fps
300 yd vel 2099 fps
300 yd energy 1203 ft lbs
300yd drop, zero 200 yds -8.6"

So it looks like the 6.5 Grendel is close in ft lbs energy at 300 yds that the 223 is at the muzzle.

BTW, if I had a 223 I would certainly use it for hogs. I'm certain that it would produce DRT hogs the way I hunt them, from a stand over a corn feeder at about 70 to 100 yds and behind the ear shots. I just already have the Grendel and like it. So, as a practical matter I don't need anything smaller.

I just don't get a thrill out of seeing how small a caliber I can kill hogs with. I've heard of the 17 cal being used with success. It's just not my thing. I like the calibers larger than 6.5mm too, just because I can. The last hog I shot was with my 458 WM, using the 300 gr SOCOM bullet at approx. SOCOM vel. Just because I can. I've built a 458 SOCOM upper with hogs in mind, but haven't got the feeding issues solved yet.

I may have to buy a box of factory ammo, just to prove that it feeds.

quote:

As far as them running off and stinking---my landowner's rule is "shoot the sow first but don't let the boar get away."

The farmers around here just slaughter the hogs mostly during the summer, and I suppose let them rot. (fat buzzards) One farm family has several young men, and they can afford night vision and drones. One report I got, which I have no way of confirming, was they shot near 275 hogs during the crop growing season. And that's just one family farm. Last summer the hogs were living in the corn fields eating from the inside. When they harvested, I was told they got about 70 hogs as they flushed out.

So, they can take care of the numbers, and I'll take them one at a time. I'm not interested in control. That's not my job or concern. I just want a quality hog or two for the freezer, and to enjoy the "hunt" for what it's worth.

As I said, getting shots at deer is no problem at all. This year I shot only one, but no telling how many I could have shot. Other family members got some too. Hogs are way more difficult, sightings during daylight not very often. Generally I have to bait for several weeks and leave them unmolested until they start feeding before dark.

For about five years, I've noticed about the same routine. It's about February, after deer season, when they start coming to the corn feeders regularly. There are no residual crops in the fields by that time. At first they come in only after dark, and gradually come in earlier, with the random and occasional group passing through in late afternoon. Then the sows have their piglets and they start feeding soon after the feeders spin. I set the timer to 4:30 pm. Then the others see, or hear, that happening and want some corn too, so the whole bunch tries to come early and compete. I see this happening per the game cameras.

This year I've sat on the stand numerous times, without camera confirmation that they were not just nocturnal. It turned out that as usual I got one only after the cameras showed me pictures of daylight arrivals.

It comes back to the same thing it always has.
Use the gun you have confidence in.

To me it boils down to the fact that for the same price I would pay for a 223, I could buy a 6.5 Grendel. And if I had both, I would pick the 6.5 to go hunting every time.

And that is what I just said, you pick the one you have confidence in. Others choose differently, neither right or wrong in their choice if it works for them.

Here's something I find very interesting.

This is a small sample of the pictures from one camera.

The pictures show the next generation, and a lot more.

The big sow is a regular visitor. Note there are several others which I consider the better shooters for butchering. It's typical for older sounders to show up too.



Note the variety gene pool:



Look carefully at this picture. See the piglet lower center with the stripes. (center left of the two black piglets.) That's from a true wild hog genetics. They are all mixed in with feral hogs - escapees over the years, but this one piglet stands out as evidence of something different.

Also note the shooters in the background. Those are the ones I would target.



Here's another picture of the striped piglet, right between the two black piglets.



Here's the best picture I can find of the striped piglet - right in front of the red boar.

quote:

Originally posted by dustoffer:
Had to have a new toy so bought a thermal scope and mounted it on my M70. Got it semi-zeroed (close enough) and went to the ranch tonight. Sat for about 2 hours and listened to the hogs squealing and generally raising heck about 250 yds west of me. Finally got up and took the rifle and my shooting sticks for a stroll. They were right where I had "earmarked" them to be. Neat as heck to be able to walk up within 50-60 yds of them, then set the rifle on the sticks and BAM! About a 150-lb sow down, but no more. Shooting pigs on the run with a RH bolt-action when you are a lefty isn't easy. I think an AR is in my future.

If you do not mind me asking, what thermal scope did you use to mount on your rifle?

Ram Rod--I have a Pulsar XQ50. So far the only thing negative I can say is that it is heavy and sits too high on the receiver--but that is true of all the thermals I think.

One thing nice---works daylight or dark, so you don't have to wait until dark to check it out.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Here's something I find very interesting.

This is a small sample of the pictures from one camera.

The pictures show the next generation, and a lot more.

The big sow is a regular visitor. Note there are several others which I consider the better shooters for butchering. It's typical for older sounders to show up too.



Note the variety gene pool:



Look carefully at this picture. See the piglet lower center with the stripes. (center left of the two black piglets.) That's from a true wild hog genetics. They are all mixed in with feral hogs - escapees over the years, but this one piglet stands out as evidence of something different.

Also note the shooters in the background. Those are the ones I would target.



Here's another picture of the striped piglet, right between the two black piglets.



Here's the best picture I can find of the striped piglet - right in front of the red boar.

My daughter calls the piglets "bacon seeds".

quote:

Originally posted by dustoffer:
Ram Rod--I have a Pulsar XQ50. So far the only thing negative I can say is that it is heavy and sits too high on the receiver--but that is true of all the thermals I think.

One thing nice---works daylight or dark, so you don't have to wait until dark to check it out.

I just bought a XQ50 and waiting for it to arrive. I can't wait to try it out.

You are gonna love it---I have mine mounted on my AR now and zeroed. Drop-in trigger arrived today so that 8#+ attrocity is gonna be history and I'll head back to the range for more trigger time and zero refinement. I finally figured out how to make the "hot" objects black on a light background so the lighted reticle will be more apparent.

I just ordered a Pulsar Trail XQ50. Should be here in a few more weeks. I feel like a little kid waiting for Christmas!

I can mount it on my .223 AR-15, 6.5CM bolt gun and a .308 AR-10, all have picatinny rails.

Any utility to being able to mount it to a 10/22 for popping coons/skunks or are these things just too blooming heavy?

They are pretty heavy and bulky but would still work for doing 'coons around feeders --

Any updates , pros/cons, on the thermals? I will be buying one but don't want to spend the money on the wrong one. If not here, a PM will also work.
Thanks!

The thermal aspects of the scope are just fine---can easily spot and ID hogs at 750 yds on 2.8x but when you up the magnification more than about 5x it is far harder to ID the critter, but still see there is a critter out there. I was out last night and could see a hog clearly at 350-400 yds on 2.8x.

Only downside of the thermal scope is that it isn't as precise as a regular glass-lens scope (at least shooting in daylight), and I wouldn't expect it to be. This model has a switch to go from black is hot to white is hot, whichever you like best. The reticle shows well in the white hot setting, but the center aiming point is lighted so it works just as well on the black hot setting.

Battery life is OK---I get an evening's hunt out of a set--3-4 hours--by turning off the display and only turning it on to scan. I would love to have a hand-held thermal monocular to scan so I wouldn't have to keep raising the rifle to scan, but haven't decided to jump on that train yet.

I've not tried any of the video or picture functions with it and probably won't ever get into that use.

Last night I put a sneak on a big boar that I spotted way out there, but wind was right and damp pasture grass made for quiet movement. Got up to within about 75 yds and popped him but didn't put him down---shooting a runner with the AR and thermal is pretty straight forward and I put two more rounds into him on the run.