I booked a pig hunt for my 13YO son. The fees were reasonable, but not cheap. The payment was due when you get one. You can come back until you are successful for free.

We came across a group of pigs, about 100 yard off. I looked at them for a while and said they look like a sow and piglets. I told the guide I did not want a wet sow or piglet.

I asked the guide how big they were. He said about 100 lbs. Based on his assessment, I told my son shot to shoot one. Good shot too considering the size. He did not get "pig fever" at all.

Unfortunately, it was a tiny piglet, about 15 pounds. It made about 1 quart of meat.

I think he owes me a discounted "do over".

Am I out of line?

I don't think it is out of line, especially as a repeat customer. It doesn't hurt to ask. The guide should have been able to look at the hog and determine a rough guess on weight. 100lb vs 15lb is quite a miscalculation.

This is how we did our hunts when I was guiding. If there was a hog there and the customer didn't want to shoot it because it was small...I'd just have them pop it anyways and we would continue on the hunt for the one they wanted.

They are a nuisance critter and each time I let a hunter pop an extra it just meant more meat for the hunter. But we were a low/no fence property and didn't pay to have hogs brought in to be hunted. Not sure what the case is for you. If the outfit does buy and bring in hogs to the property then it may be a little more difficult for pricing wiggle room.

We did have the policy of keep coming out hunting for free until you are successful. Our pricing was $150 for any size... IIRC

As I said on the other thread:
Several things here. 1) I hope you did not pass on to your son your disappointment over the fact that he hunted and DID get an animal. It would still be a trophy to me for a first time hunter.
2) If you have pig hunted before, as you say in the other thread, you should have been able to provide the guidance as well as the guide.
3) If the shot was taken and the animal down (or not) then the fee is owed, unless it was a guaranteed hunt up front.
4) I would hope the guide would offer the discount for another hunt, but it is not required.
5) Shooting wet sows is neither unethical nor unreasonable. No more than swatting mosquitoes. Vermin are vermin and destructive pests are just that. Just my opinion.

"do overs" are something to which I cannot speak except from the comfort of my computer but I have some opinions.

Guided hunts are generally not guaranteed so they turn out how they turn out. A good guide can help you through an unsuccessful hunt as well as a successful one.

The hunter/shooter has some responsibility on a hunt. The hunter should take responsibility of every shot they take and in some cases, the ones they don't take.

Guides are human and they make mistakes too. I had one assess a fine Stone sheep ram for way too long and the ram moved out of range. I KNEW it was a fine legal ram but the guide wanted to be sure and he was stalling because he was afraid the shot was too far. It all worked out in the end...a week or so later.

That probably doesn't help you at all but...

Zeke

Go here:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...3411043/m/9251067232

Dup threads.

On any ranch I know in Texas, relitives mostly but a number of friends that sell hogs..All of which would know a 15 lb. piglet from a sow or boar!! Even if you shot a piglet under any circumstance, they would tell you to go ahead and shoot another one or two..They are trying to get rid of them, but no matter what the circumstances within reason would they not allow you another pig, especially a kid..I would scratch those cheap bastards off my hunting list. Its a matter of right and wrong and that's just wrong, based on your post.

The thing that bothers me about hog hunting is the ranchers that piss and moan about the hogs and the damage they do, yet they have the nerve to charge $300 or more a day to shoot them, furnish guides that aren't needed at a stand..That doesn't jib in my books as long as the hunters take care of the land and close the gates, Im sure some are justified, probably from bad experience with hunters, my nephew got sideways with a few of them for abuses like beer cans etc, and started charging, even that didn't work so he quite hunting and called a trapper who caught as many as 50 to a 100 in one trap in a single day. The hog situation in Texas is overwhelming on some ranches.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
On any ranch I know in Texas, relitives mostly but a number of friends that sell hogs..All of which would know a 15 lb. piglet from a sow or boar!! Even if you shot a piglet under any circumstance, they would tell you to go ahead and shoot another one or two..They are trying to get rid of them, but no matter what the circumstances within reason would they not allow you another pig, especially a kid..I would scratch those cheap bastards off my hunting list. Its a matter of right and wrong and that's just wrong, based on your post.

The thing that bothers me about hog hunting is the ranchers that piss and moan about the hogs and the damage they do, yet they have the nerve to charge $300 or more a day to shoot them, furnish guides that aren't needed at a stand..That doesn't jib in my books as long as the hunters take care of the land and close the gates, Im sure some are justified, probably from bad experience with hunters, my nephew got sideways with a few of them for abuses like beer cans etc, and started charging, even that didn't work so he quite hunting and called a trapper who caught as many as 50 to a 100 in one trap in a single day. The hog situation in Texas is overwhelming on some ranches.

I am not too sure how much trouble hogs are to ranchers, sure some but not overwhelming. Farmers on the other hand do get some serious damage from feral hogs but I think they get cash reimbursement for the damage. If we could stop the free money we might get some reasonable and cheap hog hunting.

quote:

I am not too sure how much trouble hogs are to ranchers, sure some but not overwhelming. Farmers on the other hand do get some serious damage from feral hogs but I think they get cash reimbursement for the damage. If we could stop the free money we might get some reasonable and cheap hog hunting.

As far as I know, there is NO "Free Money" especially for ranchers in Texas!!!!!

Most ranchers do plant grain crops for cattle to graze in the Fall and Winter, and hogs do play hell with those.

Hogs are also hard on fences, and if they come upon a down animal the will kill and eat it!

Why do people feel they are entitled to something "Free or Cheap"??????

I offer some of the cheapest hog hunts going, and I can and do get out of staters in here to hunt, but very few Texans want to pay anything to shoot a pig.

Get out and do some leg work and you might find some folks that will let you come on their property and shoot pigs for free, they are out there.

But because there is not any "Free" money, most landowners are more concerned about liability issues than hog damage.

I need a portion of all that free money out there. Someone sign me up.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

I am not too sure how much trouble hogs are to ranchers, sure some but not overwhelming. Farmers on the other hand do get some serious damage from feral hogs but I think they get cash reimbursement for the damage. If we could stop the free money we might get some reasonable and cheap hog hunting.

As far as I know, there is NO "Free Money" especially for ranchers in Texas!!!!!

Most ranchers do plant grain crops for cattle to graze in the Fall and Winter, and hogs do play hell with those.

Hogs are also hard on fences, and if they come upon a down animal the will kill and eat it!

Why do people feel they are entitled to something "Free or Cheap"??????

I offer some of the cheapest hog hunts going, and I can and do get out of staters in here to hunt, but very few Texans want to pay anything to shoot a pig.

Get out and do some leg work and you might find some folks that will let you come on their property and shoot pigs for free, they are out there.

But because there is not any "Free" money, most landowners are more concerned about liability issues than hog damage.

In Wyoming you can get some money for animals killed by wolves, even take the loss off your taxes. If the government will pay a farmer not to plant certain crops why would there not be something in there for crop damage? As for fences they need regular maintenance anyway.

One reason is because it is all a real complicated issue.

Farmers/Ranchers can insure their crops against certain calamities, hail, drought and a few others, but wildlife presents a whole different concept.

I am not sure how wildlife depredation is viewed by the various agencies.

I know folks have a difficult time comprehending why if Feral Hogs cause so much damage, LandOwners simple don't open their gates and just let anyone/everyone have access to their property at no charge, except maybe to close friends and family, and even then there is lots of peripheral stuff that landowners have to be concerned about when allowing people onto their property.

Randall:

Back in the early 60's up here. DOW donated 12' high fencing to ranchers for their stack yards. They wouldn't provide labor though. So many stacks of fencing just rotted while rancher's killed the elk by the dozens. Many were single, or not able to handle such heavy material.

Warden's came by in the spring to count and inspect to see if they'd been butchered and would ticket or arrest if they'd found any of it.

Trick with elk and fences. They apparently have no idea where their feet are when jumping a fence. The top wire WILL be broken, don't matter if it's a foot off the ground or 10' high fence, they'll break the top wire.

Ranch I hunted and hayed on back then. He got enough 3/8" "strand' highway cable to go around his place from DOW. We spent most of two summers I was there putting it up as a top wire. Each run had a a heavy dead man anchor at the end and was stretched fairly tight. Not 'singing tight' but, tight enough it couldn't be pulled down. That ended them breaking the top wires.

They'd still jump the fence and get in the hay stacks and play hell with it. He shot 'em when he could. I spent a winter over and we killed about 18 head. Just drug 'em to a gulley and rolled 'em in. Early spring the wardens came along in a flock and went to inspecting and counting. Real waste and damned shame. Sickened me as I hadn't killed one in season for a few years. They'd just mill around while we shot 'em in the stacks. Might run around the other side but, seldom took off like you'd expect.

No, they didn't reimburse him a dime either. That was '62 I spent over winter with him. Snowed about 5 feet then got COLD! for weeks. He had a D-4 cat we used to pull a hay sled around feeding and dozing out pockets to feed the cattle in. Once it got cold we never shut it off, ran for months, when the late feeding was done we dropped the sled and backed it in the garage and closed the doors. Don't know how accurate his thermometer was but, it showed -56 for nearly a week before it warmed up to -40F and stayed that way. One thing about deep cold, it seldom snowed then, when it did, it wasn't much over a foot or less at a time. So calm Trump himself couldn't buy a breeze.

George

Yes, I remember when I did my first elk hunt in 1992.

There was a rancher out east of Collbran going toward Vega Reservoir and he had an eight foot fence around his hay yard. After my hunt a month or so it snowed enough to move the elk off of Grand Mesa and out of the high country in the White River N.F. and most of them ended up in the Plateau Creek valley.

The guide I hunt with said that DOW had wardens out there directing vehicle traffic due to people from Grand Junction and places coming out to see the elk.

I don't know how big that hay yard was, just a few acres, but at one point DOW personnel counted over 400 head of elk in that hay yard.

The reason I found out about it was that when I went back up to hunt in the Fall of 1993, I passed by that place and there were for sale signs on it. It wiped that guy out so he sold out and moved.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
One reason is because it is all a real complicated issue.

Farmers/Ranchers can insure their crops against certain calamities, hail, drought and a few others, but wildlife presents a whole different concept.

I am not sure how wildlife depredation is viewed by the various agencies.

I know folks have a difficult time comprehending why if Feral Hogs cause so much damage, LandOwners simple don't open their gates and just let anyone/everyone have access to their property at no charge, except maybe to close friends and family, and even then there is lots of peripheral stuff that landowners have to be concerned about when allowing people onto their property.

I see plenty of reasons not to let just anyone out there on the property carrying guns at night and in general shooting up the place! And there is some money to be made taking hunters out, why pass on it? At a minimum there needs to be some supervision. What do the Free Hunters want anyway, to run rampant on my property trashing the place up? The larger spreads can hire people to help control the hogs and many run traps anyway. I just don't see any real need for strangers with guns on my property without supervision. My time costs money.

quote:

Originally posted by Gunsmoker:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
On any ranch I know in Texas, relitives mostly but a number of friends that sell hogs..All of which would know a 15 lb. piglet from a sow or boar!! Even if you shot a piglet under any circumstance, they would tell you to go ahead and shoot another one or two..They are trying to get rid of them, but no matter what the circumstances within reason would they not allow you another pig, especially a kid..I would scratch those cheap bastards off my hunting list. Its a matter of right and wrong and that's just wrong, based on your post.

The thing that bothers me about hog hunting is the ranchers that piss and moan about the hogs and the damage they do, yet they have the nerve to charge $300 or more a day to shoot them, furnish guides that aren't needed at a stand..That doesn't jib in my books as long as the hunters take care of the land and close the gates, Im sure some are justified, probably from bad experience with hunters, my nephew got sideways with a few of them for abuses like beer cans etc, and started charging, even that didn't work so he quite hunting and called a trapper who caught as many as 50 to a 100 in one trap in a single day. The hog situation in Texas is overwhelming on some ranches.

I am not too sure how much trouble hogs are to ranchers, sure some but not overwhelming. Farmers on the other hand do get some serious damage from feral hogs but I think they get cash reimbursement for the damage. If we could stop the free money we might get some reasonable and cheap hog hunting.

Reasonable and cheap to me is no less than $100. a day and you have to mind the gates and provide 100 pounds of corn for the feeders. It would be nice if you put the corn in the feeders and hog toys also!

To me, reasonable and cheap is $100.00 a day, guided, I fill and maintain feeders and blinds year round, skin and butcher the hogs my clients kill, and I know the gates are shut, windows and doors on the blinds are closed and no one is where they are not supposed to be!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
To me, reasonable and cheap is $100.00 a day, guided, I fill and maintain feeders and blinds year round, skin and butcher the hogs my clients kill, and I know the gates are shut, windows and doors on the blinds are closed and no one is where they are not supposed to be!

Who could bitch about that! Be nice to get babysat, but I would handle my own hogs just the same. I ain't that broke down!

It isn't a case of anyone being "Broke Down", it is merely part of the package.

In some cases I have been known to set a trap and make sure the client gets a pig.

About the ONLY things I kill anymore are coyotes and rattlesnakes.

When I have someone come out for a hog hunt, I want them to kill a hog, and have a good time.

I have butchered enough hogs to know how it is supposed to be done and I would rather have the clients setting and watching/talking and bringing me beer!

Hog damage on ranches or farms is the same in that in the hog country, at least for the most part, ranchers raise hay and oats, winter feed for cattle, hogs can literally destroy a pasture in a short time..Javalina on the other hand don't do much damage in most places except in West Texas where plastic pipe lines are not buried, just covered with dirt and extend for several hundred miles all told, in some cases. I had 75 miles of water guzzlers for my deer, hogs and cattle and goats. Javalina used to strip down cedar fence when I was a youngster and that got real costly as ceder had to be trucked in from So. Texas or East Texas so dad paid me 25 cents to kill them, sometimes I shot 20 or perhaps 30 a day..Made good money and bought a couple of rifles and a saddle. Did the same with deer on a leased big ranch across the river in Mexico, shot hogs and deer for the 20 to 30 working Mexicans on our fencing crew that was part of the deal to lease the ranch. Had to share deer with the Federales and trade deer for quail in the town of Boquillas..Steel fence posts solved the problem and Javalina are once again abundant beyond belief on most ranches South of Marathon, Alpine and Sanderson.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
It isn't a case of anyone being "Broke Down", it is merely part of the package.

In some cases I have been known to set a trap and make sure the client gets a pig.

About the ONLY things I kill anymore are coyotes and rattlesnakes.

When I have someone come out for a hog hunt, I want them to kill a hog, and have a good time.

I have butchered enough hogs to know how it is supposed to be done and I would rather have the clients setting and watching/talking and bringing me beer!

I'm having a tough time arguing with you Randal, and I can argue with a horse!

quote:

I have butchered enough hogs to know how it is supposed to be done and I would rather have the clients setting and watching/talking and bringing me beer!

That was supposed to have read Drinking A Beer With Me!

Hunting pigs is a lot of fun, I enjoy showing those that hunt with me the countryside and my Boss's Buffalo herd, and I want to see my clients kill pigs.

To the OP, you got robbed. Plain and simple. Was this man blind? A piglet mistaken for a 100 pounder?

There are some generous folks down there in Texas. Gatogordo (as another example - my only experience so far) was a real hoot and my only regret is not having set aside more time to hunt more of those rapscallion pigs. Those of you who are on the fence need to get down there. Don't wait until you're feeble and unable.
With the propensity of commercial hog outfitters to tack on tons of fees these days, generous folks like those here on AR are becoming a rarity. They're not going to be around forever.

Sorry to encroach on your post, just had to say something. Happy hunting. Sounds like the young-un is a natural.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
To me, reasonable and cheap is $100.00 a day, guided, I fill and maintain feeders and blinds year round, skin and butcher the hogs my clients kill, and I know the gates are shut, windows and doors on the blinds are closed and no one is where they are not supposed to be!

https://www.hortoncrossbows.co...ter&utm_medium=email


Check this if you want to see the difference

I would say, if you were unhappy, give him a call and tell him why you were dissatisfied. See if he is willing to work with you on making it right.

Keep in mind that the fees charged often go to private land access, fuel, food, insurance, etc and are incurred even if you fail to harvest an animal.

Most guides will work with they customers to ensure that they will walk away happy. In this case, I would be happy with a discount on a future hunt, but in the end it is your call. best of luck...

John