I posted this on another board. If that's not ok, please delete.

What you are about to read, is from direct knowledge. It's either what I've done, or my hunting buddies have done. This is what I've learned. I am a huge fan of shooting pigs through at least one shoulder, with enough gun. I believe 22 calibers are generally too small and the 24s are marginal. Using the right bullet, in the hands of an experienced shot, they can work, but as I said are marginal in my opinion. You don't need to show me hundreds of pictures, again and again ad nauseam. This not a post on what is the best cartridge is. It's about shot placement. I think the best hog calibers start with the 6.5s and go up from there. Almost all off the hogs I've seen killed have been killed with non-mag from 6.5 to 8mm.calibers. 99% of the hogs I've killed using a 7x57, 280, and 30.06. using mid-weight Partitions, and 175gn round nose. I have head shot a few pigs. A few I've missed. I don't recommend this as pigs are constantly moving, both forward and backward and the brain is smaller than a tangerine. The neck/spine shot is similar. It's about the size of a 2x4, twelve inches long, same thing, small moving target. Again I don't deny that they work, but they are a small moving target.

The pigs kill zone is much more forward than a deer's. Most shots behind the shoulder, except high ones, will miss the lungs. My friends and i started making shots, where we tried to take out at least one shoulder, whether entrance or exit, it dosen't matter. That target is about the size of a volleyball. Which is easier to hit, a tangerine, 2x4 or a volleyball? Since then, we have never had a pig move more than a couple of feet. Most have fallen and done the piggy break dance.
Sorry I'm so long winded.

Here is the question.
Have you ever taken out a pigs shoulder, penetrate, the area between, and had one run? That's the question, the only question. Please answer if you have had experience using that shot.

Captdavid
_______

I have shot a single pig through the shoulders and it went straight down, never to move again. I have also shot two in the neck that did the same thing. I believe your premise is valid.

My friend Randall is fond of saying "an animal can pull itself a damn long way, but has a hell of a time pushing itself if the shoulder(s) are broken". I agree wholeheartedly.

Through the point of the shoulder is golden, no doubt.

Digression:
I've shot a reasonable number of hogs with the .243 105 grain Speer @ 2600 fps. Penetration is good, that is, sufficient, without being great (pass thru). All of the hogs are dead, so I'm not sure about the marginal characterization. I agree that the vitals on hogs are noticeably more forward than they are on deer. While I agree that hogs can be amazingly tough, the majority of that reputation is based on poor shot placement. That is, people aim at hogs as though they are deer, behind the shoulder and usually high. In short, a good solid lung shot on deer is very likely to be a gut shot on a hog. My rule of thumb is this: draw a line between the eyes of a hog and the point of his shoulder. Anywhere along that line is bone/spine and a solid hit will immediately anchor the pig. I don't believe in behind the shoulder shot placement on hogs, and have given it up entirely on stationary animals.

Out of the hundreds I've killed, I've never had one run when the bullet severed the animals spine/vertebrae. The just drop and paddle.




ya!


GWB

I base my judgement on the hunter's experience, confidence and ability with their firearm and the conditions that are in effect at the time of the shot.

I have guided some hunters that were able and capable of making head shots, but they are the exception rather than the rule. From my experience, hogs and javelinas rarely stand still for more than a couple of seconds when feeding. Taking shots at night under artificial light when multiple hogs are under a feeder, presents its own set of problems.

I prefer to take a shoulder shot and encourage clients to go for the shoulder. It is a fairly good sized target and to me at least, it is easier to track with the crosshairs on a walking animal than other points on the body.

This won't set well with some, but for me, the biggest mistake on hogs and other critters I see hunters make, is out guessing themselves on a shot/taking too long to make up their mind to take the shot.

They will be lined up but simply keep questioning themselves mentally as to when to shoot.

I have conditioned myself to be ready and the instant the sight/crosshairs settle on the target, I shoot. It has been working for me for awhile now and I see no need in changing. JMO.

almost always take shoulder shot, none ran. Agree tough pig reputation is usually from hitting too far back. Have been amazed on larger European boar under 100 yards, one as close as 20 that I have found 30-06 180tsx, 200 nosler partition and 220 hornady rn not pass through. Hornady was just behind leg and did not hit rib on the way in or out, just under skin. all pigs dead within feet of shot. Have had complete pass through on head on shot to the chest once.

I've been fortunate enough to kill several hundred hogs, but it is absolutely rare that I will take a head shot. My equipment is certainly up to the task. I am am quite picky when it comes to guns, cartridges, loads, optics and repeatable accuracy -- and I seldom shoot anything over 300 yards and generally have a solid rest, so bullet placement is a non-issue. But it's not the shot I strive for -- and for a variety of personal reasons, including being a bit OCD when it comes to tracking/noting a bullet's performance through the thoracic cavity.

I prefer the shoulder shot, and it is exceedingly effective. Shooting through both shoulders is almost a guaranteed anchor.
If they run on a single shoulder hit -- and if you shoot enough of them it will happen on occasion -- it is never far. If you break the onside shoulder, secondary bone fragments help create a massive wound channel (assuming you are using the proper bullet) and result in a quick, clean kill.

As to cartridges, the 7mm Bullberry, 7-30 Waters, 30-30 AI and 6.5x30-30 AI (6.5 Bullberry IMP) have accounted for a lion's share of my hogs. The modest velocities allow standard cup-and-core bullets to penetrate like premiums, even on the largest of hogs.

Randall makes a great point about hunters second-guessing themselves. I take the first available good opportunity I have. If you don't, you may never get another chance -- or worse yet, some will realize they missed an opportunity and get antsy and then hurry a shot, which is never the right thing to do.

Lastly, hog anatomy is foreign to some. Check the so-called "hunting" shows if you don't believe it. A year or two back, I saw one hunter proclaim a heart shot on a broadside hog when it was a few inches behind the shoulder and half-way up the body. I've yet to see a hog with a heart in THAT location.

I am also sick of hearing "double-lunged him!" when it was obviously too far back to even get the liver. Yes, they may die or may be recovered and need a follow-up, but that is one of my pet peeves because some may actually believe what they hear/see on TV and then make a poor shot based on that "information."

That double-lung shot always gets me. How do they know, it's a double-lung shot, when they never find the darn pig. It's like that three hundred pounder, that two desk jockeys 'threw in the back of the truck,' by themselves. Yeah right!!! Of course they never weighed it. Captdavid

Analog, you fall under my experienced/right bullet group. The shot was correct.

DWB, your shot also proves my point. If you had aimed 4" lower and 4" back, and hit where you did, the pig would still be dead, obviously. But had you aimed where you hit and missed 4" forward, or 4" high, you would probably have lost that pig.

Captdavid

Just an observation, but in looking at most hoofed stock, on a broad side shot, a hold 1 to 2 inches behind the shoulder and 1/3rd. of the way to possibly 1/2 the way up the body from the floor of the chest to me is the best hold. Anything higher and there is the possibility of slipping a bullet or arrow between the top of the lungs and the spine, which the animal can/will recover from.

It would be more effective if the shot was placed 1 & 1/2 or 2 inches below the top line of the back, such a shot should spine the animal and drop it on the spot.

If a person is capable of it, a shot into the ear or between the eye and ear will get the job done very effectively.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
I prefer the shoulder shot, and it is exceedingly effective. Shooting through both shoulders is almost a guaranteed anchor.
If they run on a single shoulder hit -- and if you shoot enough of them it will happen on occasion -- it is never far.

Now that you mention it ...
I shot a large sow late one night with a perfect shoulder shot. The rifle was the .243 and load mentioned above, and the hog only ran about 20 yards before expiring. Walking into thick brush at midnight with a .45 in one hand and a flashlight in the other after a wounded hog will certainly wake you up, even when there's no drama at the end of the story and only a very dead hog.


The punchline to the story was that the hog ran into a patch of poison ivy. As they say, humor is all about perspective. In this case, the hog got the last laugh. For about three weeks.

Analog, hence my belief that hat 6mms are marginal. Captdavid

quote:

Analog, hence my belief that hat 6mms are marginal.

It depends on a few parameters.

Distance of the shot, type of bullet, size of hog, where the shot hit, Ad Infinitum. As in any hunting situation, it is the unknowns that equate to a successful first shot or a wounded animal that may or may not be recovered.

A competent shot with a rifle they are familiar with and confident in using will kill a bunch of pigs.

I agree with CHC: "marginal" comes just as much -- if not moreso -- from the shooter as it may from the cartridge.

Some consider the cartridges I use as "marginal" as well. My little 7mm Bullberry pushes a 120 grain Ballistic Tip at 2650 fps and is exceedingly accurate. More often than not, it will exit on even the largest of hogs, and yet I've had people ask how how I could use such a "marginal" round with a "varmint" bullet -- and then have the audacity to claim I've killed something with it.

They have no clue that the 120 grain BT is a robust game bullet and uses the jacket of the 140 grainer shortened to appropriate length. It out-penetrates most cup-and-core bullets and yet does significant tissue damage along the way.

I recently took the brute of a boar below in moonlight from 190 yards. The 120 grain BT entered on the shoulder, and you can see where it exited on the slight quartering presentation.



Here's another example with that same bullet -- pushed at the same basic speed but this time through a 7-30 Waters -- after entering tight behind the onside shoulder, breaking through the opposite shoulder, penetrating the heavy cartilage (shield) and very nearly exiting, leaving a visible bump on the hide for easy retrieval. The hog, which was at 170 yards, dropped on the spot. And in case anyone is curious...yes...those blue-tipped bullets are indeed Nosler 7mm 120 grain BTs. They were over-runs for an ammo maker and sold through Shooters Pro Shop.

When it comes to perforating hoglets, I want them to be DRT, no tracking.




If tracking is required, it usually is at dark-thirty or later. I want a blood trail that a blind man can wade in!




A fellow is quoted to have once said, use enough gun.

I say use a bullet of sufficient mass and construction, you will not regret it. For me that is usually .264 diameter (6.5mm) or larger!

JAPPFT,


GWB





375 H & H, 260 Gr. Sierra Spitzer




376 Steyr, 235 gr. Barnes TSX




9.3 x 62, 250 gr. Nosler Accubond




9.3 x 74R, 286 gr. Nosler Partition



35 whelen, 225 gr accubond





338 RUM, 200 Gr. C/T Ballistic Silvertip





325 WSM, 200 Gr. Nosler Accubond



300 H & H, 180 Gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip





280 AI, 140gr. Nosler Accubond, 30-06 Springfield, 180 gr. TSX





308 Win., 150 gr. Nosler Accubond



7 mag, 140 gr accubond





6.5 Leopard (6.5 - 300 WSM), 140 gr. Sierra Sptizer

"Beware the man with one gun"....or one for each day of the hunting season!

Shot them just about in every part you boys mention
Shooting at night or day in heavy brush, you end up tracking some of them and that's the fun part
Always exchange rifle for double barreled shotgun and enjoy the ride
Some of the tracking are the best memories, especially the hairy ones

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
Shot them just about in every part you boys mention
Shooting at night or day in heavy brush, you end up tracking some of them and that's the fun part
Always exchange rifle for double barreled shotgun and enjoy the ride
Some of the tracking are the best memories, especially the hairy ones

ya,

and I don't know about you, but the older I get, the better I wuz'

ya!

GWB

Nice post Gents!

quote:

Here is the question.
Have you ever taken out a pigs shoulder, penetrate, the area between, and had one run? That's the question, the only question. Please answer if you have had experience using that shot.

If by "run" you mean not drop on the shot, yes. I can't recall one going more than maybe 50 yards, most less.

270 Weatherby, I believe it was a 130-grain Partition but could have been the original Barnes X, went 10-20 yards, in a sort of circle if I recall correctly:



9.3x74R, 285-grain Norma Oryx, straight down:



.243, 100-grain Partition, went 10-20 yards in a circle:



.243, same rifle and load (different daughter), went about 50 yards uphill:



9.3x62, 232-grain Norma Oryx, 10-20 yards in a circle:



If you are close or accurate enough to hit at the base of the ear, they pretty much go straight down. You have to be in a position to make it though. I like this when it is dark or close to it and the heavy brush is close by.

"Best Shot"?

Any.

quote:

Here is the question. Have you ever taken out a pigs shoulder, penetrate, the area between, and had one run? That's the question, the only question. Please answer if you have had experience using that shot.

Everyone's mileage can or will vary on answering that. The pigs I have been involved in the shooting of, either ones I shot or a client shot, if a shoulder was actually hit, the animals either went straight or moved in a varying sized circle in the direction the broken shoulder was on, right or left.

Also from my experience, if the shooter does break a shoulder, the resultant penetration of the bullet and bone fragments are going to penetrate the lung on the side where the impact occurred and in many cases the heart will also be hit.

As I think all of us on here have stated many times over the years, the only DRT shot that I will place any kind of a guarantee on is a brain or spine/Central Nervous System hit, and as I have accomplished a few too many times, a high thru the shoulder shot that hits the spine, will drop it on the spot, right in its tracks, and it will lay there flopping its head around waiting for a finisher. Two elk about 10 years apart come to mind.

One thing that may or will play a role in a shoulder shot is, what part of the shoulder is actually hit. A hit thru the upper part of the shoulder, shoulder blade, that does not completely break the bone will not or does not have the same effect as a lower shot that breaks the joint or right above the joint between the shoulder blade and the bone it attaches to.

The upper part of the scapula is fairly large and flat and not real thick and a bullet can punch thru that, and might not slow a big pig down all that much.

One aspect that folks that have not hunted pigs all that much or not dealt with a large boar concerns the "Fighting Shoulder" a fairly thick/heavy later of gristle that covers the shoulder and extends rearward to cover some or in one case I remember all of the upper part of the ribs and back.

I remember one boar that a client dropped on the spot with one shot from a .7mm Rem Mag. at 130/135 yards. The bullet I believe was a 140 grain something or other, but the interesting part to me, was that there was no exit hole, the bullet was stuck about an inch or so from the hide on the off side in that gristly tissue.

With all that said, anyone that hunts enough and shoots enough critters, will have something go Wobbly at some point that defies reasonable explanation.

For broadside shots, I aim straight above the middle of the front leg, 1/4 of the way up from where the leg meets the body.

I always check the shot placement pictures for different species and it seems to work for just about everything so far.