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I went to a "hog management" seminar tonight sponsored by the local extension office. One method of control that they described was a "Judas hog" which was a small sow that was caught and fitted with a tracking/GPS collar by hunters and then released. After a while she would join up with the others and ..... well I think you can figure out the rest. I thought that was very neat. Anybody know anything about this. Jeff No people in history have ever survived who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies. | ||
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In theory, it's a good idea, but in practice, I don't see it working very well other than on some rather large tracts of land. Around here at least, the hogs travel considerably and are fairly nomadic. Tomorrow they may be here, but if an easier food source surfaces, they be gone as quick as they appeared. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Doesn't sound too fair chase to me. John | |||
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BBBH- Sometimes, the hog problems are more of an ADC-type situation than hunting. They do tremendous amounts of damage and can ruin an entire crop in one night. I love hunting them, but sometimes, it's shoot on sight without regard to typical hunting etiquette. I can understand how some farmers/ranchers may want to try this method or any method that would give them an upper hand. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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When your talking about trying to control an invasive and destructive species, who cares about fare chase! | |||
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BBH, Substitute the word rats or roaches or vermin for the word hog(s), then decide whether the phrase "fair chase" applies. Able to birth at 6 months, 3 litters a year and up to 13 piglets per litter. At even a 30% survival rate your up to your ass in hogs in a short time. Once they get up around 150 to 200 lbs they have few predators other than man. The are omniverous (eat anything) Where you have hogs you don't have to many snakes usually, but you also will see a marked decrease of other species. They destroy crops root up yards. The leases I'm on the land owner wants every one seen shot on sight and leave the lay. I've heard of hunters being run off leases because they saw hogs and didn't shoot them and the land owner heard about it and kicked them off the lease. Just a little FYI GWB | |||
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And I LOVE hunting vermin!  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Perspective is everything. My nephew and I passed on three 90 lb meet sows because they had about a dozen piglets with them. You guys in Texas doing depredation control would have thought that was a gold mine. For us, pigs are one of our only real huntable big game species. It's all perspective. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Yep, You are correct, no fair chase about it. And your point is??? Bob Crops commonly damagedy feral hogs include rice, sorghum, wheat,corn, soybeans, peanuts, potatoes, watermelon and cantaloupe. One of the most common types of damage to these crops occurs when the hogs root in the fields. Hogs not only consume, but also trample the crops.Hog predation on livestock is a serious problem in some counties. Feral hogs kill and consume lambs and kid goats, especially during lambing and kidding seasons. Physical evidence of hog predation may be hard to detect because the entire animal may be consumed. Ewes and nannies with swollen udders but no nursing lambs or kids may be an indication of hog predation. Hog tracks and droppings may aid in identifying the predator. If hog predation occurs when kids and lambs are larger, the entire carcass may be turned inside out, leaving the hide with little or no flesh except on the head, neck and hooves. Feral hogs also will kill ground-nesting birds such as quail and turkey and destroy their nesting sites. On some management areas, feeders used to assist native wildlife are damaged or destroyed by feral hogs attempting to consume the feed. There is room for all of God's creatures....right next to the mashed potatoes. http://texaspredatorposse.ipbhost.com/   | |||
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The Missouri Department of Conservation is mounting an all-out effort to eradicate the ferals in isolated pockets in the state. They use any and all means to do so. They've decided the hogs are being spread by hunters so they'll have some year-round hunting, as evidenced by populations showing up "2 counties over" from the nearest population, causing them to believe they were trapped and released. Wild turkey nesting success is going to fall way off when the hogs move into the area, and there is the possibility of fawn predation as well, but I've not seen any documentation of that. So, to paraphrase what the wildlife biologists told us when we asked which one to shoot when there was a long spike and a short spike in front of us: "Shoot the short spike but don't let the long spike get away" I'd say the advice was shoot the sow without piglets, but don't let the other one get away. An old pilot, not a bold pilot, aka "the pig murdering fool" | |||
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Just be sure to spay that sow before releasing her or you'll have about two dozen more pigs by the end of the year. | |||
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Mike is correct, it is all about perception. I don't think we need to be too hard on BBH. BBH is probably new to the game and we don't want to run him off the forum. Things may well be different in his neck of the woods. I have to agree with most of the post though, that hogs should be treated as vermin. For the sake of other wildlife, farmers, and ranchers, we here in the south should kill as many as we can. I personally love them and hate them. I hate them when I'm bush hogging a field, that is in horrible condition because of these pest. I love them for the hunting oppertunaties (sp) they provide. As for the tracking device, don't know that I could put a expensive tracking collar on a pig and let it go. I'd be afraid I never see my collar again as it would be easy for the hog to travel out of tracking range so quickly. Regards, Larry | |||
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Not necessarily new to the game, in fact, old enough to remember the canned hunt stink that plagues Namibia and S Africa today, and they didn't use radio collars. In our society, the goofiest of the species in PETA and US Humane Society would snatch this up in a heart beat. In our own country, look how difficult it was to get wolves de-listed. Buffalo hunts are meeting with stiff opposition in Montana, mostly because the wacko's claim its unfair as the buffalo don't know enough to run. Here in the peoples republic of california, we are fighting a losing battle to open a spring bear season as well as opening SLO county to bear hunting. I understand that feral hogs are a plague on farm land, I shudder to think about what wackos will come up with when they hear about hunters eradicating a group of pigs because they are able to track them with a radio collar. No offense to anyone, I don't like to be up on a soapbox, I am far from perfect, but I don't think tracking game with a radio collar is doing the sport of hunting any good. And like it or not, those against hunting don't make the distinction between pests and trophy game. John | |||
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Uh - John, of course this is contriversial, and it's far bigger than about a judas pig. Baiting, no closed season, shooting at night with lights, from helicopters. Trapping, poisons, and chemical birth control. Shoot um, let um lay for the buzzards and worms. Humm - seems to me the judas pig thing is the least of the issue. Then on top, there is the issue of no natural preditors, except for us, and maybe coyotes for the piglets. It would seem that you are addressing only part of the issue. I think we can count our frigging blessings that some dreaded disease transmittable to humans hasn't broke out in the hog population. Now there would be consequenses we can only imagine in our bad dreams. We can also be thankful that they bar-b-que very well, and are fun to hunt.  KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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BBBH, I appreciate where you are coming from and understand what you are saying, but the Dr that was giving the presentation from MS State Univ. mentioned the "Judas hog" was only one tool in helping control this prolific nusiance animal. God knows I am trying to do my part to help. I don't know of any problems with PETA or any other animal rights groups here and MS, but wild horses could not keep me away from one of their protests if it was within driving distance. I think that it would be a hoot. Jeff No people in history have ever survived who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies. | |||
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The point is that there is a difference between damage control on nuisance animals and hunting. It has nothing to do with fair chase in this instance. We don't need to run and cower ever time someone waves a PETA sign in our face. There is room for all of God's creatures....right next to the mashed potatoes. http://texaspredatorposse.ipbhost.com/ | |||
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I for one was not "getting down" on BBBH. He may or may not be familiar with out situation here in Texas. He is certainly entitiled to his own perceptions and beliefs. I don't think anyone "flamed" him. PETA and anti's are fanatics and nothing we do is going to change their mind. Kinda like trying to be nice to terrorists. Thats not how you deal with them. The political climate and the laws in Texas are such, that at present, hogs can be taken by "any legal" means and there is nothing PETA not the anti's can do about it. Maybe its different in California. GWB | |||
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I don't feel attacked by any means, in the days of "change" I feel we have to be aware of those perceptions. Don't get me wrong, I feel fro anyone making money off of their land having to deal with the nuissance of feral hogs, and property owners have the right toprotect their lively hood. I worry about our leftist goof balls getting a "hook", something that can stick in the media. And believe I've been to houston, they exist in TX as well. | |||
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I don't worry a bit for the simple fact that PETA, and other fringe groups, will ALWAYS find something to detest and protest, no matter how we do it. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Whitworth wrote: "I don't worry a bit for the simple fact that PETA, and other fringe groups, will ALWAYS find something to detest and protest, no matter how we do it." Marko- I agree 100 %. Heck, if they don't find something, they'll make it up. Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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Damn, straight! I guess that's why the State of Texas shoots them from Helicopters. I guess that's why the State of Texas allows the trapping of feral hogs and permits the sale of these animals as food to Europeans.
That is their problem!  There is never a "Beating a dead feral hog icon" when you really really need one!  Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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I find it interesting that TPWD tries to do their "public" hog hunts on WMAs and in state parks during February and March. That is when the sows are most gravid, and the resulting take of pigs does the most damage. I would offer two things: Always shoot the sow with piglets, because she is fertile. A sow alone is barren. She will be bigger because is not constantly nursing piglets, and bigger is better for eating, but taking her out does nothing to help slow the spread of pigs... Secondly, I have been fortunate to shoot quite a few sows, and with the exception of one barren female, all either had piglets with them or in them, and in most cases, both. In other words, they were pregnant again while still suckling little ones. If half the piglets born are females, do the math!!! | |||
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At the feral hog seminar that I attended the other night, the presenter said that one sow would produce in excess of 122,000 descendants in 20 years. Yes, that's what he said 122,000.  Jeff No people in history have ever survived who thought they could protect their freedom by making themselves inoffensive to their enemies. | |||
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BBBH, another thing that you MUST consider is that although they breed like obama supporters, they are Much smarter. 12 years ago my Dad bought a small ranch in S. Tx. We were able to trap hogs w/ corn. Then they would not get in the traps w/o sweetened/soured corn. Now, the only thing that gets in our traps are deer! We see their tracks,wallows,rubs and can even smell them, but sometimes don't see them for weeks! So yes, it is kill on site and shoot til you're out of bullets! This, just to try to have some affect on their numbers w/ an understanding that it's a losing battle! | |||
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Nothing wrong with that. | |||
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This could be interesting. As fast as they reporduce, and the generations go by, and we keep culling the stupid ones, just think of the evolution of the super hog in a mere 20 to 40 years. Some say it happened with the coyote, and it may be true, because we know they are there, but seldom seen. I know some of you just love it when the word evolution is used in the right context. Glad to oblidge. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Yotes are a little lower on the food chain, they have to be weary. Here in the golden states, the hogs that get hunted pretty heavily become nocturnal. Probably why TX allows night hunting for hogs. Makes me want to put a starlight scope on an M1A and head for TX. John | |||
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The State of Texas caused this problem! Back many years ago the Screw Worm killed many new born pigs and calves. A&M did some sort or reproduction intervention on the screw worm flies. Calf and pigglet survival rates went up. Then they started to make the Good Ole Boys test the hogs prior to selling them at local auctions. Prior to this Hog Farmer protection act, the locals could trap durring the week and sell on Sunday. This kept the population down. So in order to protect the cattle and hog farmers we get the hog population going wild. We need to let the animals be sold "as is" at local auctions! Make it profitable to trap these hogs and they will be reduced in number. | |||
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Sorry to go off the Judas hog topic, but wouldn't it be great if the state put a bounty on these vermin like they did decades ago on foxes? Also, are these wild hogs considered 'game animals' by the state. That is, are hog hunters bound by the same regulations\game laws as deer, bear, turkey? | |||
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In Louisiana hogs may be taken year round, baiting, dogs, and traps are legal. They are not considered game animals, but you can't hunt them at night and you need a hunting license to hunt them. There are game management areas which do not allow them to be hunted unless there is an open season for other game, and they have to be taken with firearms approved for whatever is open season. Really a goofy set of regs. but that's La. for you. In Arkansas they are not game animals and you may take the with anything short of an atomic bomb, year round, anytime of the day, and you need no license. Now that's what I'm talking about. I don't know if there are more restrictive regs. on game managment areas, may well be. | |||
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Nope! Not even close. They are non-game animals and thus are not regulated. | |||
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The only hope of control in Texas is if there was a reasonable bounty but then everone would have hog pens in the back yard and raise 'em for cash. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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