Scout Mounted Optics - Advantages vs. Disadvantages?

Well?

I have 3 Steyr Scout rifles. None have forward mounted scopes, I think they suck.

The only reason I'd ever want one would be on a Semi-Auto that bounced shells off a normal mounted scope.

Basically you end up with a scope that's optically inferior, with a smaller FOV, prone to reflections off the occular in order to be able to load with stripper clips (which you can't do with a Steyr anyway).

A good low power scope is just as easy to shoot with both eyes open as is a scout scope.

So in short, I think light handy Scout rifles are a great idea, as long as they don't have forward mounted scopes on them....................................DJ

In the very begining of my shooting "career" when I had my first big bore (.416 Rem) built, I believed the marketing hype about scout mounted scopes.

I don't know whether it was because I chose a scope with a magnification higher than 1x (I think mine was 2x or even 2.5x?? It was a Leupold), but in reality I found the FOV very limiting. The effect of "super imposing" the crosshairs on your normal (both eyes open) FOV never happened to me.

The scout scopes do have one advantage, and that is that they don't give you a Weatherby eyebrow. For that reason, I sometimes see female shooters interested. I would not get another one myself.

- mike

Advantage-quick, but a good low power scope regular mounted is just as quick. Generally lighter than standard scope.

Disadvantage-lose at least 5 minutes morning and evening as scope doesn't transmit as much light being further from eye. Glare can be a problem. May throw gun balance off.

I think a scout scope mounted rifle is really good for action shooting ... I used a Galil with a scout mounted 2.5x scope for IPSC three gun matches and it did a wonderful job. VERY, VERY fast!

Am not so convinced about the scout position on a hunting rifle that is not used for "jump shots." The more traditional scope mounting position has always worked well for me.

A scout scope is one of those things that you have to use a fair amount before you "understand" it.

Re read the above. It takes some use in the field, not on a target range to appreciate a Scout Scope.

However, a Scout Scope does not work for ME.

I am left eye dominate, and shoot right handed.

I have a Scout Scope on a Tanker Garand, I looked through it just yeaterday. I close my left eye as I start to shoot, so I do not get the full advantage of the both eyes open Scout Scope technique, bit it is still more recise than oen sights in low light.

The same both eyes open principle, is used for red dot sights.

I can use a red dot sight because even with my "bad" eye I can pick up the dot with both eyes open.

Red dots are way faster than iron sights, more precise as well for high speed shooting. Scout scopes are too, IF you eyes let you use them.
properly.


You will NEVER see the advantages of a Scout Scope at a normal rifle range.

Only in a "Field Course" or "plinking" on your own will you know what it is all about.

People have been known to hit going away clay pigeons with a scout scope.

IF YOU want the ADVANTAGES;

Of a Scout Scope, but your eyes will not let you use it properly, or you cannot mount it on your gun...

Of a Red Dot sight, but sometimes wish for a little magnification....

Then take a look at a scope like the S&B 1.1-4x24 with the Illuminated Flash dot reticle.

With the reticle Illuminated, at 1.1 power, even a "goucheyed" fella like me can use it like a Scout Scope or a Red Dot.

When necessary you can dial up the power.

They also make some Military versions that have a BC for the Best in Up Close, and Fairly Far.

It just might be the best of ALL POSSIBLE WORLDS.

Check out photo of my Mauser 404 setup under "Big Bores, Scope options for 505 Gibbs".

I did not want to alter the Mauser bolt handle for a scope so went for the scout position with a green dot sight initially which is good on game but hopeless on target. Changed to the Leupold 2x as better for both load development and target as well as game use.

Advantages - mostly clear of action area making mag loading easier especially for lefty like me.
Can mount scope really low, I abhor high mounted carry handle scopes. Field of view good with both eyes open, I've done a lot of shotgunning so used to that. EER Pistol scope light and very strong, no problem with recoil.

For me the scout setup really suits and I don't find any disadvantages.

Pondoro Taylor reckoned this was the best scope setup for dangerous game rifles so who are we mere mortals to question that. Of course though, each to his own and we have to find something that we can comfortably and skillfully shoot with.

The only real excuse for a forward-mounted scope is in order to clear an action which will not allow a scope to be mounted immediately above it. "Fashion" would be the other excuse, and then only if you think baggy shorts worn around the buttocks are fashionable.

Every other factor is disadvantageous, including extremely restricted field of view and having to drill and tap your barrel.

Stonecreek

Since when does the barrel have to be drilled and tapped to mount a scout scope. That's like making a dumb statement that you have to drill and tap "the bolt" to mount a scope in the normal position. Extremely restricted field of view? So is closing one eye and trying to look through a front bead. Have a look at some scout scope setups first.

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
.... prone to reflections off the occular....

Could you explain what you mean by this, dj?

TIA!

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
Stonecreek

Since when does the barrel have to be drilled and tapped to mount a scout scope. That's like making a dumb statement that you have to drill and tap "the bolt" to mount a scope in the normal position. Extremely restricted field of view? So is closing one eye and trying to look through a front bead. Have a look at some scout scope setups first.

Scout scopes DO have an extremely restricted FOV, and as mentioned earlier I have 3 of them. They are also inferior optically. None of the Scout soope manufacturers use their highest end optics in their scout scopes.

IMO there is no advantage other than maybe the old Weatherby Eyebrow issue to a scout setup. A low powered variable at 1.5 or so traditionally mounted allows the same both eyes open shooting that a scout setup does and there are a number of low powered variables that are far superior optically to any scout scope made.

The reflection issue comes up when the sun is at your back. With a normal scope your head shades the occular. With a scout scope it can cause a nasty glare.

It didn't take much time at all out hunting with a scout scope setup for me to see the disadvantages.....................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:
The reflection issue comes up when the sun is at your back. With a normal scope your head shades the occular. With a scout scope it can cause a nasty glare.

Point well taken, dj!

But what if the target has the sun at it's back?

You mentioned you had three "scout setups" that you don't find "satisfactory". I would be interested to hear the details on those!

TIA!

I've got a Marlin Guide Gun with the XS rail and a Leupold 1.5x pistol scope mounted scout style. It's quick and you can shoot with both eyes open, no field of view problems because you've just basically got a crosshair floating in the air where the bullet is headed.

In low light conditions light transmission is poor and if the sun is behind you all you will see is glare. If light is behind the target it's really no different than with any other scope setup.

Other than avoiding Weatherby eyebrow the only reason to put it on the Guide Gun was the kewl! factor. If you had a rifle that ejected upwards, or wanted to access the action for quick reloads then a scout might be a viable alternative to a normal scope setup you just have to weigh the plus and minus'.

IMHO

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by djpaintles:
The reflection issue comes up when the sun is at your back. With a normal scope your head shades the occular. With a scout scope it can cause a nasty glare.

3 Steyr Scouts! 2 in 308 and one in 376 Steyr. Had a Jeff Cooper package with the Luepy 2x scout scope - the reticle was broken out of the box! Sent it to Leupy service and had it replaced with a German #4 reticle. It still sucked. Loaned it to a freind and he's had it for a while now.

Tried another Leupy Scout on another one and didn't care for it either.

In case you were wondering I ended up with 2 in 308 on a trade. My first one had the Steyr Spoon handle bolt knob and I traded for one with the larger bolt knob thinking I'd trade one off or whatever. Then I decided they both shoot too darn good to get rid of! :-).

The 376 will definately get your attention when it goes off. Pretty awesome gun if you needed a quick handling bear gun or whatever.......................DJ

Oh yea, I ordered another Swaro 1.5-6x42 PH SR from Doug. He still has them for $729 which IMHO is an absolute steal

No Scout scope made comes anywhere near to the optics on a Swaro PH.....................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
Stonecreek

Since when does the barrel have to be drilled and tapped to mount a scout scope.

My oversight! You could certainly glue the scope mounts to the barrel, instead. Or you could solder them in place. Or perhaps you could use the vacated holes left from an open sight that was removed from the barrel. Or you could rig a bracket that attaches to your stock's forearm. Or you could mount the scope bases with a hose clamp. You are correct, there are many ways to mount a scout-type scope without drilling and tapping the barrel.

As to field of view, the incontrovertable laws of physics dictate that the further the ocular is from the eye, the smaller the field of view. If you disagree with this, take it up with God, not me.

Sorry Stonecreek didn't really mean to be a bit snarky and I do know what you were getting at and accept that the scout position may not always be the best setup but then when we read the various posts, neither is the "normal" scope set up for all people.

I've always called the scope setup on my Mauser as scout, but in actual fact when I look at it it is actually in between. As mentioned earlier I did not want to alter the bolt handle on the original Oberndorf so found by chance that a Weaver bridge mount could be set up from the recever ring to the rear of the safari sight, screwed and epoxied at each end so has never shifted. I suppose I get a advantages of both worlds having the scope set where it is and having the full sight picture through it. As RickR said the crosshair just floats on the FOV.

As you probably know, the Type A Oberndorf has a fairly long LOP made for the tall Englishman standing to the shot so a scope in the "normal" would probably require the neck to be strained a little to get full sight picture.

Anyway, this has been a good post with lots of opinions and all valid based on experiences. By the way don't knock the baggy shorts around the buttocks, I;m sure we'll see the modern hunter dressed exactly like this if my own sons and their friends are anything to go by. For me it's too bloody drafty.

Cheers stoney

Eagle, thanks for the good spirit. Sometimes we (I) get carried away with ourselves on these exchanges.

It would be great if you could post a photo of your Mauser. I've never seen such an arrangement.

Here is a some images of the Leupold EER 2x set-up on the Mauser. The Weaver bridge mount is epoxied and screwed at the receiver and at the rear of safari open sight.
The profile of the mount with the scope off and sighting with the iron sights, exactly matches the shape of the rear sight so it does not detract in any way to using the open sights.

I had a leupy 2x handgun scope on a Swed Mauser, swapped it for a bushnell 2.5-6x, Made the mount myself, just didn't want to drill the Swed.

I'll get a pic tonight. Works fine but dj is right it is second to standard scope.

Rich