Ok so having been around the riflescope world and working my way up through Leupold, then Kahles, then Swaro, and then back to Leupold Ala the new VX6s - I think I may be pulled in to the illumination.

When I first tried the VX6 it just worked for me. The eyebox works well for me and I don't get eye strain plus I "see" it good. I have been working on changing over most of my scopes to VX6 as I have come to the idea that I like them.

But I have not shot anything yet either with the Illumination on. It just worked out like that.

Have you ?

Why am I asking ? Kind of like the other post on dots versus fine duplexes I have arrived there with my 223 bolt rifle. It wears the 8.5 - 25x50mm VX3 with the standard target knobs and fine duplex reticle. I have had it get washed out though. It can also be tough to see on a black target.

So I am thinking about the 3-18x50 VX6 as it still has the 30mm tube and would go right with my existing Talleys. Sometimes having the ability to crank down to 4 or so would be good too when hunting with the rifle.

But the reticle is thicker on the VX6, which could be a negative on paper and smaller targets as it really is a hunting scope. But it has the illumination ( that I really like but have not actually used) which could be nice on a coyote or other varmint.

What do you guys like as I really only want one 223 bolt rifle. But I may yet work in to this same situation on a AR heavy barrel rifle too if I ever order the barrel.

And this same thing is in play with something like that Vortex PST too.

Dang it can be hard to come up with just the right set up in spite of that there are so many good options out there these days.

Nightforce and others are out there - but I am not going to that cost for these rifles.

Anybody got inputs on changes they made. And liked. Or wish they hadn't lol.

The difference in cost isn't much , only about $100 or so in the VX6s. But there is a difference in the reticles sizes. Plus the idea of if they ever get used.

One of those summertime topics.

Thanks.

I, like you, started out 41 years ago with Leupold scopes, "graduated" to S&B, Swaro, and nowadays find myself back in the saddle with VX3's, a Meopta or two, and for the past two years a 2-12x42 VX6 w/duplex reticle. It is the finest hunting scope I have ever used, bar none. The reticle is black, stays black, is not too thick or thin....just perfect. The eyebox is very, very easy and forgiving, especially at higher mags. I've killed a couple of big muley bucks with it, and just got back in May from Namibia taking 12 head of plains game. I cannot say enough good things about it.

Nowadays I have 53 year old eyes. I became interested in this new 3rd generation Illuminated duplex stuff that Leupold is putting on the VXR's and VX6's. I just began tinkering with another VX6, a 3-18x44 w/fire dot duplex on another 7mag I have. It's too early to say much, but it appears to be a real winner. It has 5 levels of illumination, auto shutoff and resume and when the illumination isn't necessary it is still the superb VX6 duplex. The VX6 glass is fantastic, the CDS dials I have for the 2-12 function perfectly, and it tracks like a dream .

Lots to love about the VX6 IMHO. Killed this 190" buck with the 2-12 VX6 at last light.

[IMG:left][URL=http://s156.photobucket.com/user/JGrimes_2007/media/photo-179_zpsbb287f04.jpg.html]

That is just a spectacular deer!

The 2-12 VX6 is the first one I got too. I got a order in early and got it when not lots of them were out. For me too, it is the best all around hunting scope I have ever had on any of my rifles.

I have a new 3-18x44 in the box that is probably going on the 7MM Mag too. I just tonight was checking its performance as the sun went down and trying to decide if I should go with the 2-12 or on to the adjustable parallax 3-18 with the longer range heavy barrel 7mm.

I was debating the tried and true 2-12VX6 on the 7mm too, as its next big duty will be in Africa, and in Namibia . Here in Texas in a stand hunting environment you have time to adjust the knobs for 300 or for 50 yards. But in Africa and on the move the simpler 2-12 could be better. I am going to at least mount up the 3-18 on the 7mm and see how I like that. And if not I can switch a 2-12 on to it.

If I decide to go with the 2-12 VX6 on the 7mm, then I had the idea of maybe putting the 3-18 on the 223 bolt. Which left me with a trade in scope of the VX3.

So I said let me see what these guys have been doing and see how it worked for them. I guess I am really trying to decide if the 3-18 is a varmint scope too - and whether to get the illuminated that I truly like, or whether the fine duplex 3-18VX6 would be a better choice on the 223 heavy bolt rifle.

Thanks. And for that picture too !

I might be trying to get too much out of a single rifle too.

The continuous spinning wheel of hunting is at a new spot again.

In my early days like a lot of us I didnt have a lot of rifles to chooe from. Then I got more and better equipment. Then even more. For scopes I tried to stay with VariX 2 and 3's. None of the combos were as good of quality rifle and scope packages as I have now - but there were more of them.

Somewhere 5 or 6 years ago I started trying to move to fewer rifles but with better set ups and scopes too. My eyes need it now too.

But where used to I would take the 300 Weatherby and 3.5-10 VariXIII to get a kudu at 200 yards, and maybe use my 270 on deer with a 3x9 on it for 100 to 300 yards, and maybe something else for long range coyotes at 500 yards - now I am trying to cover those shots with one 7mm. So that changes the optics that you want to use even though I don't shoot 500 yard coyotes much with my buddy all that often. But that lead me to the 3-18.

Kind of the same on the 223 too.

I like to get the scope mounted and leave it though. I am pretty sure that many of my guns only wore one scope. Some of them that were sold to people I know still have that same scope on them now 20 years or more since I had bought them new.

I have been mounting Leupold scopes on my rifles since 1974. I have tried a few others with disappointing results. Around the turn of the century I bought my first Leupold illuminated scope, the 1.5-5X w/Circle-Dot reticle. It went on a .416Rem used for DG in Africa. I liked it so much I bought a second one when I got my first .458Lott. Those two rifles accounted for a number of Buff and Ele on my annual safaris as well as Hippo, Lion, Eland, etc. The illuminated reticle simply is the best on dark animals in the shade or forest.

Two years ago I purchased a VX-R 2-7x Firedot. Then a year ago I bought a VX-6 1-6x illuminated. The VX-R is still in the box but the VX-6 is now on my 458B&M rifle and is prepping to leave for Africa in 3 weeks. I too, am really quite impressed with the VX-6 and am considering selling the VX-R and getting the VX-6 in the 2-12X illuminated for my PG rifle - it would replace a Leupold Vari-X II 3-9x50mm that is now 17 years old (and still performing). That will likely happen upon my return from this years safari.

Whereas I never went the Euro scope route, believing that there is a point of diminishing returns for the $$ spent on scopes - and knowing that Leupolds would do everything I needed from a rifle scope, I watched many friends drink the Euro scope Kool-Aid. It seems that they have all come full circle and are back to using Leupold as their scope of choice.

The VX-6 is a helluva scope!

I did stray from Leupold several times but find myself back to Leupold. Just more bang for the buck. I am very impressed with the VX 6 scopes and have put 5 of the 1-6 illuminated #4 on my DG rifles. I just bought a 2x12 for a project and I just got back from Zim and shot 2 CB using the illuminated feature and loved it. I used a VX R 2 yrs ago to take an Ele and CB, did the job, but VX6 is superior optics for sure.

Thanks Butch and Mike.

I had a VariX2 on top of a Vanguard in 270 that I don't think has ever been even moved since its sight in mounted in the Redfield mounts. I put it on with al of it new, sighted it with Fed 150s, used it, my son used it, I loaned it out, and I sold it to a friend and it is still there. Still shoots right there . Maybe it is frozen in place lol.

When I get something done about restocking my Model 70 416 into a McMillan magnum fill stock I am going to get a VX6 on it too. I was thinking 2-12 though. I know that is not the preferred power on a heavy rifle but when I had the 1.5 x 5 on it I think I had it up more than down.

That is one place where I absolutely believe the Firedot is the best is up in the woods. When I was set up with it on and ready to shoot a pig in the woods with it, of course not a single one came by. But in buffalo tangle, I would have it on. With the new movement on feature seems great.

Leaving in 3 weeks - I am envious. We will be looking for some great hunt reports.

It´s simple:

Better to have, and not need, that to need, and not have.

Hermann

quote:

Originally posted by Arminius:
It´s simple:

Better to have, and not need, that to need, and not have.

Hermann

Not too sure about this. Actually, with the exception of that magnificent deer, doubtless shot within a reasonable range under sporting conditions, I find this thread a bit over the top.

With the exception of certain safety gear, I prefer the Aldo Leopold outlook:
http://digicoll.library.wisc.e...Cop.p0037&isize=text

I started out with plain Leupold scopes, and then borrowed a friend's Kahles scope, and thought it was worlds better. Admittedly, the Leupolds I had were old hand me downs from my dad, but they did hold zero. The euro stuff I found had better repeatability in their adjustments.

I decided to try a Leupold 1.something-4 on my .416 Rigby, and it went out right away. I then brought a Kahles illuminated 1.1-4, and while I loved the clarity and the reticle, I didn't like the short eye relief, and then got a Swaro Z6 EE for that rifle. It worked wonderfully.

Fast forward a couple years and I got in to the 3 gun game a bit. I brought a Leupold illuminated scope, which works OK, but since I got used to Swaro's glass, it just looked a little muddy to me. It works fine, but not quite as good to me.

I also have a Nightforce illuminated reticle scope, as well as a couple Trijicons and some Z6I's. I don't care for the firefly system, and while I have a bunch of plain red dot sights, I really like the Trijicon RMR for that role.

In general, I think the illuminated reticles are faster to acquire, but if you are not in a hurry, the standard reticles work just fine unless you are hunting in very low light. I would not get a gun for cat hunting without a illuminated reticle, but for most anything else, its not necessary but can be helpful. As an aside, using a really heavy reticle can eliminate some of the speed loss, but at a cost in precision. To me, the illumination is a win, but at a price and a maintenance cost.

I have been spoiled by using very good glass on the scopes- I don't care for the fact that I can't see detail as well with the Leupolds, Trijicons, et al, but they do work for the desired purpose of placing the bullet where you aim it.

I agree with Lionhunter that the fancier glass is exponentially more expensive than the marginal improvement that you get, but that is a call for the individual user to make as to if it is of value. For me, it is worth it. For others, some of whom like Saeed have lots more money than I do, it is not.

I can only assist on all points crbutler said!

If you hunt in your backyard, and a lost chance means just hunting next day again, you may use a cheaper scope, and be happy with it.

Book an expensive hunt, where your hunting time is measured in hours or maybe you have exactly ONE chance for the shot of your Life, you better rethink your price range.

Hermann

My comments go like this: I have guided around 120 hunters the last 12 years or so for mule deer, aoudad, antelope, hogs, etc. These hunters can usually afford to go wherever they want, use whatever equipment they want, etc. I've seen most every brand of high end glass on top of many top quality rifles and have compared them to my VX3's, VX6, among others. The Z6, Diavari's, NF, and S&B's are obviously fantastic glass, but characteristically have terrible duplex reticles...much too thin. A VX3, VX6, Conquest, Elite 4200 will all get you well past legal shooting light. I've compared them all many times in the field with my hunter's scopes.

What I found interesting is that probably 75% of these hunters who can afford anything they want, show up with Leupold scopes and Swarovski binoculars. None of them have ever had a scope failure, and I ask every single one of them.

I'm all for a guy using whatever he wants, and spend his money however he wants. I do feel lots of times people's preconceived brand biases take precedence over reality. I've lived it myself.

Many interesting observations, but not very much addressing the original point of illuminated reticules.

Leupold CS says the subtension is roughly the same on the illuminated VX6 duplex and the regular duplex. So why not tumble for the extra $100 and have this feature?

And that is pretty much what I have been doing too Seamaster. Once you get the VX6s they tend to want to take over lol. Seriously they are excellent scopes and I am pretty much sold on the illumination.

Interestingly it was a Swaro that I first tried with the illumination that hooked me. While the Swaro is spectacular no doubt about it, for me I just see the VX6 so well that it is what I want.

So like JG said and like lots of others I have Kahles or Swaro binoculars and Leupold scopes. It is as good and useable of an optics combination as I could put together.

I saw that the LVR illuminated with a couple of hash marks is available in the 2-12 VX6. I am going to call Leupold and at least inquire as to it being available in the 3-18, which I doubt it is as it is 44 and 50 mm vs 42 for the 2-12. But if it is I am likely to snatch the LR VX3 off the 223 bolt gun.

It is darn nice to see Leupold come back around and for all of us to have this amount of great choices available in optics.

As Arminius says, when you're on the hunt of a lifetime, it does not make sense to pinch pennies.

The choice of JGRaider's clients also makes sense. We should do our hunting before we raise the rifle, so having the finest glass in your binos is more important than in the scope. The main requirement in any sight is utmost reliability, the ability to put bullets exactly where you expect, time after time. In the modern context Swaro and Leupold are at least game to mention there is a danger with the technology and what they have done about it - more/stronger erector-tube springs.

Beyond that, size is important. The bigger your scope, the more objective bell protruding, the more prone it is to being bumped and knocked out of alignment.

Illuminated reticles add to the mass, too, and wear down our independence. The batteries may last for eons yet even Leupold only guarantee their electrics for one or two years. And if the light fails at the wrong time you may even forget there is a conventional reticle behind it, and miss the momentary chance of a lifetime.

The old European #1 reticle might have been coarse and no good for rabbits at long range - but when you can't see those three posts in any light situation, it's time to go home.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:



Illuminated reticles add to the mass, too, and wear down our independence. The batteries may last for eons yet even Leupold only guarantee their electrics for one or two years. And if the light fails at the wrong time you may even forget there is a conventional reticle behind it, and miss the momentary chance of a lifetime.

Well, in the case of the VX6 w/fire dot duplex, without the illumination you still have a world class duplex reticle, the best in the business bar none.

Since this thread started I have bought another VX 6 1x6x24illuminated, but going to try the circle firedot. I'm going to replace a SB 1x4x24, circle plex non illuminated on my son's M70 416.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:



Illuminated reticles add to the mass, too, and wear down our independence. The batteries may last for eons yet even Leupold only guarantee their electrics for one or two years. And if the light fails at the wrong time you may even forget there is a conventional reticle behind it, and miss the momentary chance of a lifetime.

Well, in the case of the VX6 w/fire dot duplex, without the illumination you still have a world class duplex reticle, the best in the business bar none.

Yes, I realise most illuminated scopes have a good conventional reticle for a fall back. What I was referring to is a corrosive aspect of human nature when we invest lots of money and faith in some new technology. In this case, if we get into the habit of always using the illumination, the instance when it finally fails may have a debilitating effect on us, esp. if the trophy of a lifetime stops for a moment in front. For precious milliseconds our ego may be so deflated that we forget about the reticle we can see while mourning the loss of the light we've paid so much to get and become so dependent on.

Intermittent use of illumination probably makes some sense but that may come with problems of decision, too.

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
Since this thread started I have bought another VX 6 1x6x24illuminated, but going to try the circle firedot. I'm going to replace a SB 1x4x24, circle plex non illuminated on my son's M70 416.

While this i a sound choice, I warn you about the circle firedot.

It´s just me, but I do not like a cluttered scope center.

I HAVE a ballistic fire dot in one of my Leupis ( VX R 3 - 9 x 42 ), and wish, there were just tiny marks on the reticle´s lines ...

Hermann

I have just the FireDot - but as above I see that Leupold has an illuminated LRV or LVR reticle for the VX 6 with some hold over hashes on it. But no windage hashes.

Regarding illuminated reticles, I have used the illuminated dot on my S&B 1.1x4x24 Zenith, which has the FD2 reticle and is mounted on my 375H&H, to shoot several hyena in Africa. I used it for leopard hunting too, but have yet to have the right leopard come in to the bait.

Without the illuminated reticle, and without the very wide range of adjustment S&B offers - especially the lowest settings - I could not have made a couple of those shots. [And had the target been a leopard or almost anything other than a hyena, I wouldn't have tried even with the S&B.] Here is the Reticle selection for the S&B: http://www.schmidtundbender.de.../11-4x24-zenith.html

Here in the states there has been a time or two when I wished I had an illuminated reticle, mostly when hunting our Maryland sika deer, which are very nocturnal, on darkly overcast evenings.

One crosshairs, I have found that the courser cross hairs, such as a German No 4 style, or the FD2 offer very quick target acquisition and are a strong advantage for most hunting. On the other hand I have found they do not offer the best results when target shooting or for very fine shooting of smaller targets, like ground hogs, etc, at a distance.

As an example, the 375H&H on which my 1.1x4x24 S&B is mounted is a very accurate rifle, capable of repeated three shot groups clover leafs - when it had a Leupold 1x5x20 on it. I cannot get the same groups with the S&B, the reticle will not allow it. My shooting in the field is noticeably better with the S&B FD2 reticle than it is with the Leupold heavy Duplex, mostly the FD2 allows for mush more rapid target acquisition and shooting.

I've been looking for a reasonably priced, good quality illuminated reticle scope for sika hunting, and I think the Leupold VX-R's might just fill that bill.

JPK