I talked with Leica, Zeiss and Swarovski at the NRA convention last week about their rangefinders. I wanted to know how tight their beams were.

The rep from Leica was very knowledgeable about their products and laser beam divergence. I had read in some articles about laser beam dispersion and even wrote that myself based on what I read. However the rep from Leica said it is divergence not dispersion. The rep from Swaro who was the expert on that topic was not available the two times I stopped by their booth. However, one of the other guys relayed the info to me on my second stop there. The Zeiss rep didn’t seem to want to talk to me about the subject and gave me a quick answer which didn’t give me a lot of confidence. It was the tightest beam of the three.

Leica’s is tighter vertical than Swaro’s and Swaro’s is tighter horizontal. I wrote down the numbers, but can’t find them. I think the Leica’s are about 1½ yards vertical and 2 yards horizontal at 1000 yards. I believe the Swaro’s are 2½ yards vertical and 1 ½ yards horizontal at 1000 yards. The Zeiss rep said theirs are 1 yard at a 1000 yards and that is all he said and walked away about as quick as he said it.

There are some issues with rangefinders. I own a Leica and can say that I have had a few issues getting readings in really cold weather and when looking in the bright sun. I have also heard of some other rangefinders having problems in those conditions also. In most cases, I get an instant and accurate reading.

I didn’t check with any other manufacturers due to limited time. I know they all improve their products as time goes on and someone else may have details on the other brands. Some may not need or want one that works at the longer ranges, so some of the less expensive rangefinders may be fine for their application.

When was the last time you engaged a target at 1000 yards. You may be be better asking asking how many angles can dance on the point of a bayonet.

quote:

Originally posted by JIm Yackley:
When was the last time you engaged a target at 1000 yards. You may be be better asking asking how many angles can dance on the point of a bayonet.

If you understood the effectiveness or the ineffectiveness of many rangefinders to range out to the distances claimed, you might better understand my post. However, I have come to expect from some (minority) AR posters to comment without understanding.

I wonder, just thinking aloud here, if the Zeiss rep misunderstood the question and thought you were asking how accurate their range finders were at 1000 yards? Hence why he gave a quick, standard, answer. Most range finders state they are accurate to one yard.

I wasn't sure I'd have much use for a range finder and so bought the least expensive "reasonable" one I could get which was a Bushnell Scout 1000. I did once get it to range something in the 800 - 900 yard region but it was the gable end of a white painted house. I have found that I use it rather more than I had expected and there are certain situations where it works really well for me. In saying that I've no use for the more expensive ones but I think if I lost the Bushnell I would buy another low end range finder.

Most of my ranging is in the 50 - 300 yard region but I can see where having more range and also a narrower beam could be an advantage even if you've no intention to shoot beyond 200 yards.

caorach,

I am sure the Zeiss rep did not misunderstand my question. I first asked a different rep and he pointed to the another rep an said he is the one who could answer my question. We walked over to the other rep and the first rep explained my question to him while I was there. That is when he said 1 yd in 1000.

The fact that you ranged the broad side of a house at 800 - 900 yards is exactly why some want a more expensive rangefinder. If you had a deer sized target at that distance, I don't believe you would get an accurate reading. If there is something larger near (in front or behind) your target, I believe you would be getting that reading and not the reading for the intended target.

Based on your intended usage, I agree that you don't need a more expensive model. No need to spend money on something you don't need.

I once tried to get beam divergence info from Bushnell. The rep asked me why I needed to know that and was speaking in an angry tone. I needed to know that because I wanted to buy something that would range deer size targets effectively at longer ranges. I never got the info. That was a phone conversation several years ago. I bought the Leica soon after that.

So we are talking 1.5-2 milliradians which is pretty typical for laser diodes. The real question is how perfectly aligned the laser is to the center of view of the scope because if that is off by 1 or 2 mr then you are not ranging what you are looking at. As a side note my Leica range finder doesn't have a tripod mounting hole and I really have to work hard to range small targets out beyond 350y or so because of wobble. A tripod mount would be nice.
C.G.B.

quote:

Originally posted by cgbach:
So we are talking 1.5-2 milliradians which is pretty typical for laser diodes. The real question is how perfectly aligned the laser is to the center of view of the scope because if that is off by 1 or 2 mr then you are not ranging what you are looking at. As a side note my Leica range finder doesn't have a tripod mounting hole and I really have to work hard to range small targets out beyond 350y or so because of wobble. A tripod mount would be nice.
C.G.B.

CGB,
That mount's on its way! Hold tight.

I agree that alignment is key. The issue I deal with is antelope: if they're on a very gradual slope and you're shaking and can't get the beam dead on and hit either below or above you could get differences of 50 - 100 yards. I'm not good at rangfinding with my eyeballs over gullies and coolies in the prairie. I'm sure there are tons of cool guys who never miss who are, but I'm not one of them.

If the beams bouncing off of something to the left or right of the target on a gradual slope you could be in trouble on range.

It's not such a big deal when you're across a valley in the mountains as the target's on a steep slope and left/right/high/low is 10 yards off which doesn't impact range that much.

I have the Leica Geovids. You can get accurate readings as far out as they will read on pretty small objects. I use a monopod full length to get a good rest then center the box on the object for a reading. I ranged deer at 1200 yards

I am not sure any answer which is given in terms of so many yards, feet, or inches is from a person who really understands the "window" that a laser beam creates/uses.

While it is true that if the target is exactly 90-degrees perpendicular to the beam, such a measurement would be correct, if the target is a sloped object, or especially an object smaller than the beam divergence but lying on a slope, the range won't be perfectly correct.

Put another way, shine a flashlight on a wall vertical to you. Note how much of the wall the beam covers. Then shine your flashlight on a wall lying at a 45-degree angle to you and note how much of THAT wall the beam covers.

The laser beam does the same thing. And the farther away the object and/or the greater the slope, the more area the beam covers.

If the laser range finder averages the distance to the area covered, as I believe they all do, then obviously, the area covered on the slope will read differently than the area covered by a the laser striking a truly perpendicular object.

The only time that would not be so would be if the object one hopes to range is in exactly the center of the beam's covered area on the slope.