I am looking for new sights for a Ruger Guide Gun in 375 Ruger.

I currently have a 1-5 Leo on my 416 DG rifle and a Leo 2-7 on a 45-70.

The Ruger would be primarily a bear gun both over bait and stalk and shoot, so ranges could be from 20yds to 200 yds.

I would prefer to spend $500.00 or less but could go up to a grand.

Any recommendations or good/bad experiences?

Thanks.

BH63

What worries me is the electronics warranty in the scope.
Leupold Electronics Limited Two-Year Warranty
Leupold electronic products which include rangefinders, thermal products, and other electronic devices are warrantied against defects in materials and workmanship for two-years from the date of purchase. If the product is found to be defective, Leupold & Stevens Inc. will repair or replace it free of charge, within that two-year period. Proof of purchase may be required to verify warranty.

On my 375 Ruger Guide Gun I have Alaskan Arms LLC quick detach rings with a Leupold VX-3 2.5-8x36mm duplex reticle. Then I have a NECG Ghost Ring sights that attach and detach from rear ring attaches to on receiver for close range timber shots.

I've used Leupold VXR 1-4's for several years with no troubles. Excellent battery life too.

Notwithstanding that they may get you on target quicker and help shoot by moonlight, I have several problems with illuminated sights, beginning with the issues 700xcr mentioned.

PM me your address and I'll send you a book that covers the matter at length.

Thanks for all the responses (especially sambarman338's generous off of sending me the book).

I appreciate the endorsement for the VXR 1-4, but I'm thinking I would like a little more magnification for this rifle, as I would like the option of using it for shots out to 250 or even 300 yards, and at my age, I need all the help I can get.

That's a good point about the 2 year warranty on Leo electronics.

I probably should check Colorado's Hunting regs on using illuminated reticles as well, before I pluck down any cash.

I think I will go to Scheel's and see what they have available.

Thanks again.

BH63

Well Buff, PM me your address and I'll send you one, hopefully before you make your purchase.

Are your glasses (ie specs) up to date? I don't think we should hope scopes will make up for the dimming of our eyesight, at least before we've seen an ophthalmologist. I could explain that at length, too, but better leave something for the book

quote:

I appreciate the endorsement for the VXR 1-4, but I'm thinking I would like a little more magnification for this rifle, as I would like the option of using it for shots out to 250 or even 300 yards, and at my age, I need all the help I can get.

Leupold makes the VXR series in more than just 1-4. I just told you what I had, if you looked into them you will see the entire series.

Great luck with the Leo Dots. I've got maybe 4 of the VX6 line and 2 of the VX-R line. No problems with any of them.

I decided to move a Leo 2-7 from my 45-70 levergun
to the 375 Guide fun and get a VXR 1-4 for the lever gun.

Thanks for all the excellent advice and information.


BH63

I think illuminated reticles are over rated. Sometimes they make it easier to get on target but sometimes I find they are a distraction. You can see them in near dark conditions but every time I found it too dark to see standard cross-hairs it was already too dark to see what I was shooting at.

They are a necessity when shooting with night vision but that is more applicable to the military. For civilians night hunting is illegal in most places.

You can Not go wrong with the firedots, warranty not withstanding. Battery life is awesome and the time out feature has the dot back on before you can get the gun in your shoulder.

quote:

Originally posted by lshopper:
... Battery life is awesome ...

...but maybe not awesome enough. Two of my friends came hunting with everything that opens and shuts in electronic gear and rechargers, to discover the batteries in both their year-old VX-Rs had gone flat. Unfortunately, the single modern decadence they forgot to bring was another battery for their scopes.

Well, their poor planning shouldn't have ruined their hunt because you still have a normal reticle to use.

A little over a week ago, I received a 2007 model S&B scope that still had the ORIGINAL batteries in it. Both worked. I tossed them anyway and put a new one in the illumination control housing and another in the "spare" compartment.

Once a person uses a GOOD illuminated reticle, you'll be forever hooked and will quickly appreciate how beneficial it can be.

Quite right on all counts, Bobby. It didn't spoil their hunt because, despite the supposed lasting qualities of the batteries, the men hadn't hunted with the lights much and had not got too used to them.

But there's the rub. It is my belief that once people do get 'forever hooked', they'll become so dependent on the damned thing that should it ever fail, they might be momentarily gobsmacked, missing the shot of a lifetime or worse. I compare this with why hunters have traditionally trusted repeaters more than self-loaders for dangerous game, even though the latter are faster, reliable if kept clean, quicker to cycle manually than a turn-bolt and cannot suffer African shortstroke; the justifiable fear is that when we become reliant on really smart equipment, any failure in it to function as expected can have a disarming, even catastrophic, psychological effect.

Nah....I think you worry too much.

Most folks who own these scopes RARELY turn on the illumination. BUT they know it is there should they ever need it, and that is a little comfort in itself. Most of my shots at game over the past 10 years or so have been in either very poor lighting or moonlight. Once you are used to the feature, you turn it on instinctively before the shot, much like de-activating a safety. I've never had any functionality issues with them or found myself overly-reliant, even though illumination is indeed used on most of my shots.

In my mind, it's pretty simple: You learn to use the feature, appreciate for what it offers and put it to use whenever needed. As to batteries, most people have a specific day each year that they change out the batteries in their fire alarms. At the same time, they can replace the scope batteries, too.

Have a VXR as well as Mueller firedots on my combo guns. most of my hunting is night hog or night varmit calling. The illumination dots are fantastic for this old farts eyes. Been using for several years and no complaints.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Nah....I think you worry too much.

Most folks who own these scopes RARELY turn on the illumination...

Not sure about that, Bobby. Part of the reason the mates cited ran out of batteries was because they hunted with the lights on all the time.

I met another guy at a gun show who loved the VX-R and said he usually hunted with the light on, too.

He liked the scope because the light turned off when not carried and because the batteries only cost $2 each.

He said it got him on to running targets much quicker than without illumination. However, he then made the mistake of telling me of one such experience.

It seems he saw a large stag taking off and hammered it. The antlers were so heavy that he could hardly touch the fingers of both hands around the coronets - but in doing this discovered the animal was still in velvet (taking stags in velvet is considered bad form by many around here).

So what can we glean from this? Well, had he been just a little earlier returning to camp or a little slower getting off that shot, had his view of the target not been dulled by the brightness of the dot, maybe there is a greater chance he'd have noticed the fat furriness of those antlers.

Blaming the shooting of the wrong animal on the illuminated dot is like someone blaming a spoon for being overweight. If his vision really was affected by the dot, then he needs to learn how to use the dog-gone scope! I'm sorry, but I don't buy that at all, especially after you wrote "It seems he saw a large stag taking off and hammered it." It seems the ONLY thing here at fault would be the hunter's patience and lack of self-control.

I would always prefer an illuminated scope for hunting.

Illumination adds a significant advantage in hunting for me.

My low light scopes are leica er5 3-15 56. It is a great scope and great bang for the buck. I ended up buying 4.

When I upgrade to my ultimate low light scope it will be illuminated. The leica work great. Illuminated reticles just make it much easier for hunting applications especially target acquisition.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Blaming the shooting of the wrong animal on the illuminated dot is like someone blaming a spoon for being overweight. If his vision really was affected by the dot, then he needs to learn how to use the dog-gone scope! I'm sorry, but I don't buy that at all, especially after you wrote "It seems he saw a large stag taking off and hammered it." It seems the ONLY thing here at fault would be the hunter's patience and lack of self-control.

Fair enough, Bobby, but sometimes equipment can have a strange psychological effect on the user. When young I bought an Alfa Romeo sports car (a 1969 GTV), an unusual thing in our town, just because it became available. Until that time I was no more of a hoon than the average 26-year-old but, having bought it, I felt I had to live up to the image - and drove like a maniac at every opportunity. I could go further in examples regarding shooting, but I think you get my drift.

When it comes to illuminated sights, the cutting edge of this the light gives me speed outlook began with the small, red-spot sights people started putting on woods rifles a few decades ago. Fine accuracy was not the point, it was all about speed, and some hunters with illuminated 1-4x variables now practise shooting at 1x with both eyes open for exactly the same reason.

So, the guy I mentioned does have a vainglorious side but I think he is partly a victim of the technology. Is technology victimhood a moral failing or just something that happens when we let our equipment tail wag the sporting dog? Well, having hunted most of my life without proper ear protection, I'm a bit deaf - an aspect of that problem in itself - and my family used to laugh at my failure to hear them. However, since the advent of smart phones, it is almost impossible to get the attention of my wife and adult kids as we sit around the living room of an evening. Neat stuff happens on the TV in front of us and I sometimes comment on it. Once, someone might have asked me not to interrupt the story but often now they don't even hear my comment or have any idea what happened. As a counter, of course, you might choose to remember also what Jimbo said: "Do you know we're ruled by TV?"

I have not read the books, but have used the VXR in 2-7 and 4-12. The dot is fantastic for bears, especially black bears. In low light it can be very difficult to find the shoulder on those black buggers and even tougher to get the crosshairs where you want them. The firedot makes this much easier. I have not had an issue with mine. Also, not only have I not missed a shot or opportunity due to the dot, I have made several shots calling fox and yotes at night that I probably wouldn't have taken without. I guess to this point I have only seen the positives.

That black-bear argument is worth thinking about, Quintus, esp. since I'm going after them in May - but will be using a rifle supplied by the guide.

Maybe I'll ask one of my mates if he'll lend me his VX-R

As the years keep piling up and the eyesight slowly dwindle away, I like the illuminated reticles better and better.


I hunt moose in timber, and red deer and roe deer in low light, often on moonlit nights over frost- or snow covered fields.

I have both high end Zeiss scopes, but also a couple of Leupold VX-R for daylight spot and stalk and driven hunts.

I find that I get faster ( and more accurate) on target with the little red dot.

It is usually turned down to just a faint glow, far away from blinding or beeing a hindrance of any kind.

So yes, I like the VX-R, but for serious low light hunting, I use the Zeiss Victory`s all the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
I have not read the books...

Am I to think you mean my Light at the Start of the Tunnel, Quintus?

PM me your address and I'll pop one in the mail for you.

Sambarman338, thank you sincerely for the offer, but to be honest - I don't want to know. In my early 20s when I started reloading I read everything available. Much of what I read contradicted what I had learned through my own trial and error. I began to doubt. I began to second guess and over-think. It started to erode the enjoyment I was getting out of the process. I have learned the hard way what I like and trust, and can depend on. From optics, to triggers, stocks, bullets, rings and bases, etc. Whether it is cost, lens quality versus erector reliability, bullet shape versus construction, there are always trade-offs. I do not desire to be convinced why something I like, that I have proven myself to be effective ultimately isn't. I use the illuminated reticle for maybe 5% of my hunting and I want to continue to have confidence when I do. I do appreciate the offer though, Thank you!

quote:

But there's the rub. It is my belief that once people do get 'forever hooked', they'll become so dependent on the damned thing that should it ever fail, they might be momentarily gobsmacked, missing the shot of a lifetime or worse. I compare this with why hunters have traditionally trusted repeaters more than self-loaders for dangerous game, even though the latter are faster, reliable if kept clean, quicker to cycle manually than a turn-bolt and cannot suffer African shortstroke; the justifiable fear is that when we become reliant on really smart equipment, any failure in it to function as expected can have a disarming, even catastrophic, psychological effect.

I think you could make your own argument for why scopes are a gimmick and that you should stick with iron sights. Way more reliable and fail far less than any scope. For me, I'll go with change my batteries every year and cary a spare.

Thanks Quintus - each to his own.

Yes, Ishopper, as I argue in the book, to an animalarian all hunting with weapons more advanced than a rock might be argued to take unfair advantage of critters that haven't changed in thousands of years. However, I believe that deer etc have become smarter, even if they still look the same as those painted in French caves. This explains to some extent why it may be harder to approach mule deer now than 200 years ago and why some hunters feel the need of bigger scopes.

Are scopes sporting at all? Well, since Isaac Newton cobbled one up at least 300 ago, I think it is a bit late to make that argument. Use of conventional scopes also adds a margin of safety we don't get with open sights. Illuminated dots, on the other hand, may allow us to hunt later but actually reduce public safety because of that.

Use of electronics in hunting, however, is a much more modern phenomenon and its application is expanding to a point where it may soon be possible for those of no moral compunction to fill their tag without even leaving their cabins. So, electrical hunting aids are a place where we still could draw the line.

I put a VX-R 2-7 on my son’s rifle for him. It’s suprisingly good glass for the money. If the battery goes dead or the electronics fail, you are left with a perfectly useable scope. After a year of use I bought one for my rifle. It has a couple hundred rounds on my 6.5 and 30/06 and I plan to put it on my 375 Ruger when time allows.

quote:

Originally posted by TREE 'EM:
I put a VX-R 2-7 on my son’s rifle for him. It’s suprisingly good glass for the money. If the battery goes dead or the electronics fail, you are left with a perfectly useable scope. After a year of use I bought one for my rifle. It has a couple hundred rounds on my 6.5 and 30/06 and I plan to put it on my 375 Ruger when time allows.

Three VX-R scopes here; 1.25-4 patrol, 3-9X40, 4-12X40. No complaints about any of them, not my best scopes but well worth their modest price. Batteries are cheap and easily obtained. If they do burn out in the field, as TREE 'EM said, you have a perfectly useable scope. But I keep a spare in my backpack just in case.

I bought one of the VX-R 3-9X scopes for a leopard hunt. I did not shoot a leopard but looked at two through the scope. The red dot is really nice for shooting at night and I would have had no trouble making a clean shot if I had the chance. There was no clear shot on one leopard and the other one was too young. I would definitely recommend the scope.

At least the VX-R has the battery down with the other turrets, not on the ocular where it could possibly obscure a leopard at just the wrong moment.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
At least the VX-R has the battery down with the other turrets, not on the ocular where it could possibly obscure a leopard at just the wrong moment.

Unless someone has glued their sights or an extra reticle to the top of their scope, this shouldn't be an issue.

I don't like the looks of the illumination on the ocular, but saying such cosmetics could obscure a target is quite the stretch! If that was the case, all those hunters with BDC-type turrets would be complaining

Well Bobby, a turret on top of the ocular is enhanced tunnel vision and may just obscure something dangerous at the worst moment. Now, while that moment would be very fleeting if lifting your rifle from below to shoulder height, anyone walking around with butt to shoulder like a modern warrior might find the vision block more pervasive.

The guys with BDC turrets probably don't take them leopard hunting too much. Seeing the turret sticking up probably gives them a feeling of Bourne superiority.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Well Bobby, a turret on top of the ocular

A full turret on the ocular is a rare thing nowadays, and -- to the best of my recollection -- none of the big name makers do this. They either use the Sci-Fi look of the Swaros (which I despise!) or have the illumination control as part of the turret complex in the form of a a rheostat-type knob.

I use illuminated scopes a bit, and I have yet to have any instance where my view was compromised. How many times has it happened to you with an illuminated scope?


The one below -- a GPO -- incorporates both the parallax and illumination control on the same turret.





Here's the more common with only illumination control within that turret housing:





the push-button style VX-6:





Like some others, this S&B Zenith carries a spare battery.




Minox:





Leica ERi (sadly no longer available here):




Kahles CSX, also no longer available here:



Discontinued Zeiss with adjustments on the ocular:







the old-style Swaro:




discontinued Zeiss Varipoint:




Zeiss Victory HT, also discontinued:






Hawke Endurance 30 WA:




Zeiss Conquest V4:



Steiner NightHunter Xtreme:



S&B Polar:





S&B Klassik:



S&B Stratos:

The worst ocular turret I can recall is the one Zeiss put on the Duralyt scopes. To me it resembled the dome on the Hagia Sophia, inspiring the use of it on the cover of my book.

Yep, they were ugly, but not as ugly as the first generation of illumination in the Swaro Z6i.

There's a 2-8x42 Duralyt in the batch of pictures posted. Ugly...yes. Block your vision? No way.

Just the hill over the tunnel?

You still haven't answered my question as to how many times you have actually had your view and shot blocked/obstructed or interrupted by an illumination system.

I've looked through the scopes in the shop, Bobby that was enough. Matter of fact there was a guy down at the local shop looking for an illuminated scope today. The trouble wasn't space-occupying lesions on the ocular as it happened - just that every one he went to try had a flat battery.