Hi to all

I have a swarovski pv 4-16x50 with front parralax and i would like your opinions if it is worth trading it for a schmidt&bender along the lines of the precision hunter or the zenith range in 3-12x50 as i never realy go past 8 or 9 power any way. I had a look through a 3-9x50 classic and i peronaly thought the glass was clearer and sharper in the schmidt but that is my opinion and would like to here what other people think.

Cheers paulhed

I have both. They are roughly similar optically. The Swaro's are much lighter. The S&B's might be tougher though Swaro PH's rarely have problems. Both are excellent......................DJ

quote:

The Swaro's are much lighter

than the S&B's and just about everything else out there. If this is a hunting rifle that you are carrying a lot and shooting a little Swaro all the way.

LWD

Schmidt and Bender is a military contractor all over the world on sniper scopes. All of their scopes are mil proof sniper tough.

I don't currently own either one, but I have used both. I like the Swarovski Rail better than the S&B rail, and I think Swarovski's are prettier.

If it was a heavy barreled 338 Lapua or something like that I would go S&B all the way.

On most hunting rifles I would choose a Zeiss, Swarovski, Kahles, or another.

S&B's are as "pretty" though they are super tough.

Schmidt and Bender are fantastic. I have 2 of them...both on my biggest rifles...2.5-10x56 on my .338 win mag and 1.5-6x42 on my 9.3x62. Schmidt and Bender scopes are maybe heavy but they are definitely the toughest scopes you can find, absolutely outstanding riflescopes. I also have 2 Zeiss Diavary that I like but the Schmidt and Bender Zenith model are the best...just my opinion.

I have recently purchased 2 S&B 3-12 Klassics.............I enquired about the difference between the Zenith and Klassic and Basically shape was it the optics and internal are the same..........unless you get a flash dot etc. I think there great, the second S&B was to replace a German Zeiss 2.5-10x50 that mudded its unders after 10 shots on a 7m stw...........I actually think the Zeiss gave a richer image colour wise but it was no sharper or crisper than the S&B which seemed to me to give a blander image colour wise if you get what I mean.

I like the fact that the S&B's are supposed to be tougher, I am saving my pennies for a PM11 S&B for a long range project.

If you aren't going past 8 or 9 power and perhaps find yourself using about the same level of magnification most of the time would you consider going for a S&B with fixed magnification? It might save you a few quid for something else plus there is less to fiddle about with and less to go wrong. Certainly good for hunting with but if it is mostly target shooting then the variable is probably handy.

Give me a S&B any day.

Optics aside which scope has the greater range of adjustments and which are the most repeatable?

That's why I traded most of my S&B in on Nightforce NXS.............no comparison in that department.

S & B all the way here also. I do not care for the Adj Obj on the higher mangnification Swaro scopes. I have the 4-16 precision hunter S&B and yes it is probably heavier but it has side focus parralax adj. I would say that they are probably equal optically, S&B undoubtedly tougher but also heavier. The adj Obj is a deal breaker for me.

PC
WRONG !the diffrence between the klassic and the Zenith is like night and day, the internals etc etc on the zenith are totally diffrent, so diffrent that they are far superior to the klassic
Daniel

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
PC
WRONG !the diffrence between the klassic and the Zenith is like night and day, the internals etc etc on the zenith are totally diffrent, so diffrent that they are far superior to the klassic
Daniel

I spoke with the guys at the New England Custom Guns booth (the importer of S&B) at SCI Reno. The claasic and the zeniths are the same scope, same lenses, just a different housing.

I would have to agree with Blair338/378 on that I went with the nightforce nxs and will not buy anything else. I have not had an S&B but looked through them and are great but like I said never had one in the field. I here people talk highly of them, I have had different swaro's and think there are great but I just like the features and the toughness of the nightforce and what the S&B's are. Just my opinion.

I want another S&B in 1.1-4 with the No#4 reticule but they say the #4 is not available in this scope.
Bugger!

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I want another S&B in 1.1-4 with the No#4 reticule but they say the #4 is not available in this scope.
Bugger!

Hi OZ,

buy a Swaro Z6i 1-6x24 - it comes in 4A-I reticle, but I would prefer the Circle-Dot...

Awesome scope - You will forget anything besides very fast if You had a look through it! Promissed...

quote:

Originally posted by paulhed:
Hi to all

I have a swarovski pv 4-16x50 with front parralax and i would like your opinions if it is worth trading it for a schmidt&bender along the lines of the precision hunter or the zenith range in 3-12x50 as i never realy go past 8 or 9 power any way. I had a look through a 3-9x50 classic and i peronaly thought the glass was clearer and sharper in the schmidt but that is my opinion and would like to here what other people think.

Cheers paulhed

Changing from a Swarovski to a S&B is like changing a Porsche for a VW ...?!

Don´t do it.

If, buy a classic Swaro PV-N 3-12x50 or a new Z6 (more futuristic) - You won´t regret it. I have 3 of the PV-N 3-12x50 with rail mounts in use and I have a Zeiss to compare with - the Swaro is by far the better scope!

I will have a look at the Swarovski, but I must say I have seen some problems with six of their optics so I'm a little hesitant.

I have both Swaro and S&B scopes and I prefer the Swaro..That said I was in the market for a new scope and was pretty set on an Z6 until I handled one...It obviously been built with an eye on the American market and has certain features I'm not keen on; in fact I prefer my current PV over the new Z6..

In the end, I decide to order a Zeiss Victory 2.5-10x42mm with a No 4 reticule and look forward to trying it out when it arrives..

Ozhunter: I just bought a S&B Zenith in that magnification with a #7 that looks like #4 with slightly thinner posts. I really like it!

I have seen the new Z6i 2,5-15x56 with ballistic turrent on IWA the last 2 days: Awesome... Unbelievable, but Swarovski made a big step ahead this time again...

I just say whow to it (and going to order mine tomorrow (as a premium dealer the easiest thing to do)...
Just the price is bad about it, but I think it is worth: with SR rail and bturrent it will cost 2280 € (without VAT)... Bad world...

Klaus

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
PC
WRONG !the diffrence between the klassic and the Zenith is like night and day, the internals etc etc on the zenith are totally diffrent, so diffrent that they are far superior to the klassic
Daniel

M98 unless my source where I purchase my S&B's is wrong thats not the case...........same internals same lenses different shape, a new Klassic is as good as a new Zenith...............some dont like the shape of the Zenith (I'm one of those people) If had of been told the Zenith was better I would have purchased it.

Apparently the Klassic can be more expensive in Europe than the Zenith but its the opposite in the States.............unsure if this is true though, at any rate there is aprox $150 seprating the cost of a Klassic to a Zenith and that may represent extra costs to Machine the round parts of the Zenith Housing.

FWIW, I discussed this issue with a major retailer, who shall remain nameless, in the US. He said that in his opinion, the Swaros had a bit better glass and the Schmidts were built like a tank and stronger. For normal use he recommends the Swaros, but people who are rough on their equipment, for PH, or, obviously, tactical use then the strength of the S&Bs comes into play. For the considerable difference in price I went with a couple of Swaros but I'll get around to a Schmidt one of these days I'm sure.

Gatogordo,

In truth I suspect it depends on which range of S&B you are talking about.

I think Swaro PV scopes have a better build quality and are better designed than either the S&B Klassic or Zenith ranges (I've owned scopes from all these ranges)..I think its probably only the PM11 Tactical scopes that are truly any tougher than Swaro's and I suspect this is borne out by the fact that scopes from the S&B PM11 range are standard issue on the sniper rifles of a number of different army's including the British.

I can't comment on the S&B Precision Hunter scopes as I have no direct experience with them.

Regards,

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by PC:

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
PC
WRONG !the diffrence between the S&B klassic and the Zenith is like night and day, the internals etc etc on the zenith are totally diffrent, so diffrent that they are far superior to the klassic
Daniel

M98 unless my source where I purchase my S&B's is wrong thats not the case...........same internals same lenses different shape, a new Klassic is as good as a new Zenith...............some dont like the shape of the Zenith (I'm one of those people) If had of been told the Zenith was better I would have purchased it.

Apparently the Klassic can be more expensive in Europe than the Zenith but its the opposite in the States.............unsure if this is true though, at any rate there is aprox $150 seprating the cost of a Klassic to a Zenith and that may represent extra costs to Machine the round parts of the Zenith Housing.

One difference I have found between the two is that the Klassic has 80mm eye relief where the Zenith has the 90mm Magnum Eye Relief.

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
Ozhunter: I just bought a S&B Zenith in that magnification with a #7 that looks like #4 with slightly thinner posts. I really like it!

Thanks LJS,
A friend has a S&B with the no#7, but I find the thick posts a bit to far apart. I prefer them close and use them to acquire the target and only use the fine points at the range.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by PC:

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
PC
WRONG !the diffrence between the klassic and the Zenith is like night and day, the internals etc etc on the zenith are totally diffrent, so diffrent that they are far superior to the klassic
Daniel

M98 unless my source where I purchase my S&B's is wrong thats not the case...........same internals same lenses different shape, a new Klassic is as good as a new Zenith...............some dont like the shape of the Zenith (I'm one of those people) If had of been told the Zenith was better I would have purchased it.

Apparently the Klassic can be more expensive in Europe than the Zenith but its the opposite in the States.............unsure if this is true though, at any rate there is aprox $150 seprating the cost of a Klassic to a Zenith and that may represent extra costs to Machine the round parts of the Zenith Housing.

One difference I have found between the two is that the Klassic has 80mm eye relief where the Zenith has the 90mm Magnum Eye Relief.

not realy: the classic has 80mm eye relief plus about 10mm "damping way" (PV-N) - which means that it has the ocular-ring damped for another 10-12mm ...

But: The bad news is, that the PV-N PV-I and PV-2 are not produced anymore since a few days ago: If You want some more, last chance to order is till today 17h German time - after that all stock is off(after IWA)...

So, if You need anything like that, you may contact me via email...

And about eye relief: The Z6 has up to 120mm eye relief... ! in the EE edition...

scubapro,

I suspect the "Klassic" PC and M98 are talking about is the S&B Klassic not the Swarovski..They are comparing the features of the two different lines of S&B scopes....

My main complaints about the Z6 is that the reticule is in the 2nd focal plane and that even their heavy reticule is not as heavy as the one in the PV range..

On the plus side, they've gone back to an etched glass reticule, the illuminated reticule is the best I've ever seen and the eye relief is much improved without compromising the FOV. I suspect it will sell like hotcakes on the American market...

Regards,

Pete

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
Ozhunter: I just bought a S&B Zenith in that magnification with a #7 that looks like #4 with slightly thinner posts. I really like it!

Thanks LJS,
A friend has a S&B with the no#7, but I find the thick posts a bit to far apart. I prefer them close and use them to acquire the target and only use the fine points at the range.

Oz Hunter I have a #7 reticle in one of my S&B's what is the MOa between the center of the reticle to where it thickens out ?

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
My main complaints about the Z6 is that the reticule is in the 2nd focal plane and that even their heavy reticule is not as heavy as the one in the PV range..
Pete

Pete, just saw this post now, and wanted to agree with you. There are conditions under which a very fine reticle is an advantage, but hunting in falling light is not one of them.

I have a suspicion Swaro went this way, because they want people to splash out on illuminated reticles these days... (OK, OK just tell me I suffer from too many conspiracy theories... )..

Honestly, for a scope for general (Eropean - or simply low light) use, I much prefer a reticle with HEAVY outer arms and thin inners. Zeiss normally does very good (possibly the best) reticles in this respect.

- mike

Mike,

My Zeiss Victory turned up last Thursday and i am pleased to say that the No 4 Reticule is exactly the same as on my Swaro PV...

I have to confess though I think the Swaro PV looks a better quality scope...its only the little things like the adjustment turrets ect, but I think Swaro has the edge in this department.

The Zeiss does have noticeably longer eye relief while the FOV seems about the same...

I haven't had chance to take the Zeiss to the range yet nor try it in the field, but I suspect apart from the cosmetics I mentioned, it will be at least as good as the Swaro which to say, is very good in deed!

Regards,

Pete