So, I'm really pissed! I sent my Swarovski back for repair because it started shifting zero and has some weird residue on the inside of the tube. Also, the tube is painted and chipped up (it's 22 years old and that's how they finished them back then).

They just sent me the following message:

"Good Morning James,

Hope you are doing well today!

As you know we have rec’d your product and the technician started working on it and has determined that if you would like a new main tube the cost would be $300.00. The scope is 22 years old and the main tube is painted which is basically cosmetic. If you were interested in having a full body refurbishment the cost would be $450.00 which means everything on the outside would be brand new and the serial # would also change. So it’s up to you if you would like to have either scenario done.

If you would like to have this done you can either email or call me at 800-426-3089 ext. 2966. You can pay by charge card (Visa or MasterCard only), check, money order or cashier’s check.

Our business hours are Monday thru Friday from 8:00 am to 4:30 pm Eastern Standard Time.

Hope to hear from you soon!"

I've sent scopes even older than this one back to Leupold and they fix them or send new right away.

I will NEVER buy another Swarovski product; period! And neither should you!!!

IMO, cosmetic wear from normal use and abuse is never a warranty item. That's simply personal responsibility.

I agree - But the shifting zero and internal residue isn't.

Is it possible that they are fixing the internal issues and merely were offering you the opportunity for the body refurbishment/painting?

Did you call the Swarovski rep and speak with him before coming here to impugn the company's reputation?

George

Can't speak for others, but my Swarovski experiences have been nothing short of outstanding.

I have sent 3 and never had an issue. Optics have improved enormously in 22 years. Call Doug at Cameralandny and get a nice new one. The only thing I own that is 22 years old are kids and my wife.

I switched from Leopoldo to Swarovski and really like their products.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Is it possible that they are fixing the internal issues and merely were offering you the opportunity for the body refurbishment/painting?

Did you call the Swarovski rep and speak with him before coming here to impugn the company's reputation?

George

I have an entire email string that I am happy to share - The paint is just peeling off all over the scope and there is debris inside that moves around (as does the POI) every time you fire the thing.

I have 11 Swaro's, some this same vintage and none of them have a problem with the paint. It's a quality issue, plain and simple.

If I had banged the scope or turned it in the rings, than it is on me - But that's not the case.

For $450 I can buy a leupold and never worry about the finish, function or warranty, so thats what I'll do.

Lifetime warranty means lifetime; Right?

[EDIT: And I'm not impugning their reputation, they are!]

I recently purchased two Leupold VX-6 1-6x illuminated scopes for a pair of 458B&M rifles. I am very impressed with them. 90% of my scopes for 40 years are Leupold. Never had a problem sending one in for service, regardless the age, and there have only been a couple over those 40 years that needed to go back.

I've never been a believer/fan of over-priced european rifle scopes. I know some who drank the kook-aid and bought the big buck euro scopes 20 years ago but have had issues over the years and are now back to being Leupold believers.

But it's your money, time and hunting trip, so buy whatever you want.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
I recently purchased two Leupold VX-6 1-6x illuminated scopes for a pair of 458B&M rifles. I am very impressed with them. 90% of my scopes for 40 years are Leupold. Never had a problem sending one in for service, regardless the age, and there have only been a couple over those 40 years that needed to go back.

I've never been a believer/fan of over-priced european rifle scopes. I know some who drank the kook-aid and bought the big buck euro scopes 20 years ago but have had issues over the years and are now back to being Leupold believers.

But it's your money, time and hunting trip, so buy whatever you want.

Well said - I sent one leupold back years ago and it came back new...

I have had excellent warranty service from Swarovski on binoculars.

I have had absolutely outstanding service from Leupold on 4 or 5 scopes over the years, as well as from Zeiss on a binocular.

My only service experience with Swarovski was on an SLC binocular, which had developed an extremely gritty, tough feel to the focussing mechanism (after about 3 years of service). Swarovski kept the optic for the better part of 5 months, and when it was returned it had a completely new exterior armor jacket, an updated diopter adjustment mechanism, a new set of eyecups...and the same gritty, difficult-to-operate focussing as before. Very disappointing, and my last Swarovski purchase.

I have had nothing but great customer service from Swarovski (and Leupold). I haven't sent something in that was 20 plus years old, but both companies have been great to deal with if an issue arose.

At least Swarovski answer your letters, more than I can say for certain other Teutonic concerns. I had problems with my old Habicht 4 and 6 scopes, though, and was amazed to hear they don't even service them any more or hazard a guess at how to approach the problems.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
At least Swarovski answer your letters, more than I can say for certain other Teutonic concerns. I had problems with my old Habicht 4 and 6 scopes, though, and was amazed to hear they don't even service them any more or hazard a guess at how to approach the problems.

That's their version of a lifetime warranty...

I have never sent anything to Leupold that was less than 20 years old and they have all come back probably better than the day they were put into service! It is hard not to remain loyal when you KNOW what you buy from them will last as long as you want to keep it. Money well spent.

OK... Time for me to eat a little Crow... In my last communication with Swarovski, I told them to throw the scope away and not to send it back to me. I have no need for an ugly scope that will not hold a zero.

Today they sent me a message that their senior technician reviewed my scope and agreed that it was a quality issue on their end.

They were going to repair the internal problems, as well as the cosmetics and send it back to me.

Appears they had a change of heart and therefore I have to say they are honoring their warranty.

Alls well that ends well.

I'm not really sure that you should eat any of that crow. Companies that require you to lose your temper, carry on an extended long-distance argument, wait for months and/or jump through other assorted hoops to get service do not inspire a consumer to purchase more of their products. The fact that they eventually, begrudgingly kinda sorta admit that there might be something wrong, and that it was necessary to call in one of the honchoes from senior management to review your supposedly unique case (because their products are perfect and above reproach, don't ya know?), doesn't really sweeten the pot all that much. Once you have slapped me in the face, a belated apology is cold comfort. Other companies such as Leupold, Zeiss, and also in my experience Bushnell, have treated me properly and taken care of my service issues without feeling the need to stretch my tolerance and patience to the breaking point and beyond.

I sent a scope to Leupold that had cosmetic and internal issues. They called me and said they would fix the internal issues free and if I wanted to upgrade the cosmetics, they would sell me a new scope at a reduced price. I told them which scope I was interested in and they gave me a price I couldn't refuse. Gave them credit card number, got new scope and was happy camper.

Over 50 years ago, I saved my pennies and bought a 1st. generation Leupold 3-9 VX 2. After a couple of years of hard use, I fell chasing some goats on a lava field and crushed the tube by the windage adjustment. The scope leaked and some black crap grew inside. I quit using it and threw it in the drawer of my gun cabinet for about 25 years. Subsequent Leupold purchases and warranty claims reminded me that their warranty was life time. For sentimental reasons, I sent the old scope back to Leupold advising that the damage was my fault and I would pay for the repairs.

Leupold promptly advised that it was not repairable as that model was long obsolete and parts were unavailable. They apologized and sent me a new VX 2 at no cost. Since then, I have purchased over a dozen Leupold scopes and binos.

They retained the old scope and I suspect that it is displayed in their museum. What a great company.

Geoff

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
I'm not really sure that you should eat any of that crow. Companies that require you to lose your temper, carry on an extended long-distance argument, wait for months and/or jump through other assorted hoops to get service do not inspire a consumer to purchase more of their products. The fact that they eventually, begrudgingly kinda sorta admit that there might be something wrong, and that it was necessary to call in one of the honchoes from senior management to review your supposedly unique case (because their products are perfect and above reproach, don't ya know?), doesn't really sweeten the pot all that much. Once you have slapped me in the face, a belated apology is cold comfort. Other companies such as Leupold, Zeiss, and also in my experience Bushnell, have treated me properly and taken care of my service issues without feeling the need to stretch my tolerance and patience to the breaking point and beyond.

I never really lost my temper... I just told them I wasn't going to pay for it twice and to put the thing in the trash for me.g

I just thought it appropriate to tell you all how it played out.

I'm glad you are getting satisfaction, but you didn't answer either of my questions.

Did you check with them to see if they were offering to refurbish the exterior in addition to repairing the mechanical issue(s)?

Did they ever say they were not going to address the mechanical issue(s)?

George

Glad to hear they are taking care of you. I have dealt with their CS several times and have had nothing less the good experiences. Here is an exerpt from their limited lifetime warranty, which is only for the optical system.

SWAROVSKI OPTIK
offers a lifetime warranty on the optical system of our products for products purchased by US
residents from an authorized SWAROVSKI OPTIK North American dealer. Once examined, if it is
determined that the optical system is defective we will repair or replace the instrument or defective
part. SWAROVSKI OPTIK warrants all other parts of the instrument for ten years from date of
purchase against defects in materials or workmanship, subject to normal use.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
I'm glad you are getting satisfaction, but you didn't answer either of my questions.

Did you check with them to see if they were offering to refurbish the exterior in addition to repairing the mechanical issue(s)?

Did they ever say they were not going to address the mechanical issue(s)?

George

Hey George - Sorry, I thought I did answer your questions. It was a really weird exchange. They told me that the problem with my scope was with the main tube - OK. Then they said to fix the cosmetic issue required me to pay for a new main tube. My point was that if its a quality issue on the tube, they should bear the cost.

If they have to replace the main tube to fix the internal problems anyways, I didn't understand why I had to pay for it because of the external cosmetics. Weird.

In any event, they're fixing it and I'm not going to denigrate them anymore.

Jim

quote:

Can't speak for others, but my Swarovski experiences have been nothing short of outstanding.

+1

I just had a nice talk with the lady at Swaro and sent in a 3-10x 42 Habicht. Scope came on a Cooper 20 Tac and was very blurry out past 130 yards or so. Doesn't have a side focus but i couldn't really get it to clear up with the AO. Something is obviously wrong. We will see how they do.

My experience is that Swarovski and Leupold both have excellent customer service. Leupold is probably a little better due to their "You destroy it we replace it" attitude.

Swarovski completely rebuilt my 14 year old 10x42's and paid return shipping to me. Very hard for me to complain about that!

Problem is that Leupold doesn't make binoculars that are as good as Swarovski.

I am a huge fan of both companies and doubt you can go wrong with either. Sorry you had trouble with Swarovski. Maybe they misunderstood your main concern.

I have both brands of scopes and so far am satisfied with both when it comes to warranty claims. I favor Leupold, just because I think it is a better value and better on the warranty side. The new VX 6s are fantastic. I recently bought a used rifle with an old 4x Leupold on it that was turning purple so I sent it back to Leupold for cosmetic changes and they sent me a brand new one at no cost. There was nothing internally wrong with the one I sent in. Now, that is standing behind your stuff.
Wendell does make a point though, Leupold does not produce a binocular that can compete with the Swaros.

With the exception of the Swaro Z6 Circle Dot on a DGR, all of my scopes are Leupolds.

Glad your scope issue was resolved.

Leupold is gaining market shares even in Europe ... good scopes, good service.

But the FOV on Swaro or Kahles scopes is AWESOME!

And you have to experience the "clarity" of Swaro ( Kahles, Zeiss, ... ) scopes to know what I speak of.

That said, the CS of Leupold seems to be unequalled.

Hermann

P.S.: get a Swaro Z 6 i, 1,7 - 10 x 42. Or one of the new Kahles Helia 5´s!

GET ONE! NOW!

Mount it on your favourite rifle.

You are welcomed!

And don´t cry ... it´s only money ...

quote:

Originally posted by Arminius:
Leupold is gaining market shares even in Europe ... good scopes, good service.

But the FOV on Swaro or Kahles scopes is AWESOME!

And you have to experience the "clarity" of Swaro ( Kahles, Zeiss, ... ) scopes to know what I speak of.

That said, the CS of Leupold seems to be unequalled.

Hermann

P.S.: get a Swaro Z 6 i, 1,7 - 10 x 42. Or one of the new Kahles Helia 5´s!

GET ONE! NOW!

Mount it on your favourite rifle.

You are welcomed!

And don´t cry ... it´s only money ...

One look through a Leupold VX6 and you'll never spend $2k on a scope again.

quote:

Originally posted by Gale Johnson:
I just had a nice talk with the lady at Swaro and sent in a 3-10x 42 Habicht. Scope came on a Cooper 20 Tac and was very blurry out past 130 yards or so. Doesn't have a side focus but i couldn't really get it to clear up with the AO. Something is obviously wrong. We will see how they do.

Just got the scope back from Swaro today, apparently there was a serious problem, replaced a lense, no charge and no shipping cost back to me. Thumbs up in my opinion

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
I recently purchased two Leupold VX-6 1-6x illuminated scopes for a pair of 458B&M rifles. I am very impressed with them. 90% of my scopes for 40 years are Leupold. Never had a problem sending one in for service, regardless the age, and there have only been a couple over those 40 years that needed to go back.

I've never been a believer/fan of over-priced european rifle scopes. I know some who drank the kook-aid and bought the big buck euro scopes 20 years ago but have had issues over the years and are now back to being Leupold believers.

But it's your money, time and hunting trip, so buy whatever you want.

IMO Leupold CS was ALWAYS excellent, but now their scopes are getting better, feature wise.

But FOV is still >definitely< substandard, compared to recent and comparable Swaro / Kahles scopes.

Just my 2 Cents ...

Hermann

Funny, but I have never considered FOV to be of substantial importance on a rifle scope. Nothing I have ever shot failed to die due to FOV. FOV is a non-issue in my scope selection and I cannot recall a hunting situation I have ever been in, anywhere in the world, where it would have been different. But then again, I have never hunted Middle Europe.

My Swarovski binocs and scopes are great. My Zeiss scopes are great. I have a couple other European scopes that are great. I do have several Leupolds and the warranty is great, but why should we have as much trouble as we do with point of impact shift.
I am working on an accuracy project with John Barsness. Too help in the project I mounted a very little used, but older 36X Leupold. John was getting two groups with each session. Two in one group and 3 in another. He put a 3X9 on it and the 2 grouping went away. It will go to Leupold when I get it back.
I believe this is the reason, actually I know, that the BR shooters are going to the March scopes. Yes the are expensive, but their optics are much superior and tracking is the best.
For a hunting rifle a .100 shift in poa doesn't hurt, but shooting BR it would take you from 1st to 41st.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Funny, but I have never considered FOV to be of substantial importance on a rifle scope. Nothing I have ever shot failed to die due to FOV. FOV is a non-issue in my scope selection and I cannot recall a hunting situation I have ever been in, anywhere in the world, where it would have been different. But then again, I have never hunted Middle Europe.

You were not close enough!



Hermann

There are a lot of specifications that people get wrapped up in that make almost no difference.
FOV?
Big deal - just use less magnification. With a large game animal the target is large enough you do not need much magnification. With low magnification you get a lot of FOV.
Oh you like lots of magnification - tough because with larger animals you do not need it.
You might need more magnification for varmits and pests but you do not need FOV for them.

I suspect most Europeans copy cat each other just like many Americans copy cat each other.
Neither group has extensive experience with a low magnification scope. Everyone thinks in terms of sniping not hunting.

I am more concerned with adequate eye relief - which is a direct trade off for FOV.
If you slobber over FOV you are giving up eye relief which makes the eye relief and eye placement more critical - and makes the rifle harder to shoot at moving game. In addition it can make a heavy recoiling rifle more likely to cut your head.

Magnification, eye relief and FOV
They are all traded off for each other. In my mind Eye relief is mandatory, then magnification suitable for the application,
last is FOV.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Funny, but I have never considered FOV to be of substantial importance on a rifle scope. Nothing I have ever shot failed to die due to FOV. FOV is a non-issue in my scope selection and I cannot recall a hunting situation I have ever been in, anywhere in the world, where it would have been different. But then again, I have never hunted Middle Europe.

As the burglar said, SR4759, there's something in that.

Ironically, the bigger your field of view, the more country is blotted out around it. In the average image-movement scope, to calculate how much this will be, you can multiply the FoV by the magnification to get a linear approximation. When hunting in mountain country you might want to think of the area hidden, which eventually comes to acres.

I suppose if you get a big enough FoV, you can hope that everything that matters is inside it.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
There are a lot of specifications that people get wrapped up in that make almost no difference.
FOV?
Big deal - just use less magnification. With a large game animal the target is large enough you do not need much magnification. With low magnification you get a lot of FOV.
Oh you like lots of magnification - tough because with larger animals you do not need it.
You might need more magnification for varmits and pests but you do not need FOV for them.

I suspect most Europeans copy cat each other just like many Americans copy cat each other.
Neither group has extensive experience with a low magnification scope. Everyone thinks in terms of sniping not hunting.

I am more concerned with adequate eye relief - which is a direct trade off for FOV.
If you slobber over FOV you are giving up eye relief which makes the eye relief and eye placement more critical - and makes the rifle harder to shoot at moving game. In addition it can make a heavy recoiling rifle more likely to cut your head.

Magnification, eye relief and FOV
They are all traded off for each other. In my mind Eye relief is mandatory, then magnification suitable for the application,
last is FOV.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Funny, but I have never considered FOV to be of substantial importance on a rifle scope. Nothing I have ever shot failed to die due to FOV. FOV is a non-issue in my scope selection and I cannot recall a hunting situation I have ever been in, anywhere in the world, where it would have been different. But then again, I have never hunted Middle Europe.

+1 Well said. I had originally thought that perhaps Arminius had mixed up FOV with Eye Relief. Eye Relief is the one great advantage I'll give the European brands over Leupolds.

No, I did not mix it up, I meant FOV.

I am speaking about driven hunts, where you have a track wide to shoot your game ( Wild Boar ).

You may see them / it inside the driven area, but may not be able, or not allowed to shoot there.

And Shooting afterwards is not always possible.

You have 4 to 5 m space to shoot, at a distance from 5 to 40 m ....

FOV is EVERYTHING there!

Hermann