The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Optics VARI-X III vs VX-III...I'm lostGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I have two scopes the same type but purchased in different decades. 1st VARI-X III 2nd VX-III Both were purchased as Heavy Duplex, but the reticles are quite different. The adjustment knobs are also different. What gives? Personally I like the first one better! Andy We Band of Bubbas N.R.A Life Member TDR Cummins Power All The Way Certified member of the Whompers Club | ||
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They are two different scopes. The VX-III was an updated and improved model of the Vari-X III. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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I saved posts from guys before who knew something about the differences. I'll post them here. Hope they help. This is a bit more than you asked for, but I thought I might cover a few other questions and misconceptions. The Rifleman scopes are fully coated with a coating of magnesium fluoride on all lens glass surfaces providing 82% of the available light back to the shooters eye. The windage and elevation adjustments are a silent friction adjustment marked in 1/2" inch increments on the dial. The scopes offer a new Wide Duplex with the thin section opening being twice as open as the Standard Duplex. The scopes are matte finish with a new sleek ergonomic maintube design. No Custom Shop services are available on a Rifleman scope. The scopes are waterproof and are covered by the Leupold Lifetime Guarantee. (The Rifleman scope is basically the old Vari-X II in a new body). The VX-I scopes are MultiCoat 4 on the exterior eyepiece lens and the objective lens and use an industry standard coating throughout, providing approximately 85% of the available light back to the shooters eye. The windage and elevation adjustments are a silent friction adjustment marked in 1/4" inch increments on the dial. The scopes offer a Standard Duplex reticle or a Wide Duplex reticle. The scopes are offered in black gloss or matte finish. The scopes are waterproof and covered by the Leupold Lifetime Guarantee. Custom Shop services are available. (The VX-I is an improvement over the Vari-X II in that it has the MultiCoat 4 external lenses, 1/4 moa friction adjustment as opposed to the 1/2 moa, fast focus diopter adjustment and the eye piece and objective are threaded for Alumina products The VX-II scopes are MultiCoat 4 providing 92% of the available light back to the shooters eye. The windage and elevation adjustments are an audible click adjustment in 1/4" inch click increments on the dial. The scopes offer multiple reticle options. The scopes are offered in black gloss or matte finish and some models are available in silver finish. The scopes are waterproof and covered by the Leupold Lifetime Guarantee. Custom Shop services are available. (The VX-II line is basically the Vari-X III optics in the Vari-X II body). The VX-III scopes use the new Matched Index lens system, providing 94% to 98% of the available light back to the shooters eye depending on the particular VX-III model. The windage and elevation adjustments are an audible click adjustment in 1/4" inch click increments on the dial and low profile adjustments are finger adjustable (no special tools required). The scopes offer multiple reticle options. The scopes are offered in black gloss or matte finish and some models are available in silver finish. Some models are available in a 30mm maintube. These selected hunting models, VX-III 1.75-6x32mm, 2.5-8x36mm, 3.5-10x40mm, 3.5-10x50mm, 4.5-14x40mm, and 4.5-14x50mm scopes provide a simple built-in range estimating feature that uses the Duplex reticle. The scopes are waterproof and covered by the Leupold Lifetime Guarantee. Custom Shop Services are available. Basically: Rifleman = Vari X-IIc VX-II = Vari X-III The Rifleman is the Vari X-IIc in a newly designed maintube with threading for the Alumina products. The VX-I has Multicoat4 on the outside lenses and the micro-friction 1/4 MOA adjustments that make it different from the Vari X-IIc. It also is threaded for the Alumina products. The VX-II has the multicoat4 lens system all the way through and the 1/4 MOA "coin" click adjustments. Basically making it the Vari X-III packaged in a Vari X-II maintube. It has the fast focus eyepiece and is threaded for the Alumina products. The VX-III has the index matched lens system and the 1/4 MOA finger click adjustments all in the Vari X-III maintube. Of course, it has the fast focus eyepiece and is threaded for the Alumina products. We re-introduced the AO on the 4.5-14x40mm this year. There are no real apples to apples comparisons to make here, but the Rifleman price dropped $20 off of the Vari X-IIc price and added the threading. The VX-I added the micro-friction 1/4 MOA adjustments, Multicoat4 external lenses and the threading for the same price as the Vari X-IIc, the X-II has the functionality of the Vari X-III with the fast focus eye-piece and the threading for about $150.00 less and the VX-III has the Index Matched lenses system, 1/4 MOA finger click adjustments, fast focus eye-piece and the threading for about the same price as the Vari X-III. | |||
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To confuse things further, Leupold has recently dropped the "VX-III" line in favor of an "updated" scope called the "VX-3". The Vari-X III, VX-III, and VX-3 are all iterations of the same scope. The internal design, which is slightly different from the original (the Vari-X II, Vari-X IIc, VX-I, and VX-II family) is essentially unchanged. Most of what is changed is (1) the shape of the adjustment knobs, and (2) the advertising hype. Your Vari-X III (provided it is not one of the earliest with the friction adjustments) is exactly the same scope as either of the other "III" models. Some manufacturing techniques have changed in order to make them less costly to produce, but those techniques have had no effect (either positive or negative) on their utility. To clarify, the VX-II is simply the VX-I (or Vari-X IIc) outfitted with click rather than friction adjustments. Sure, the Leupold advertising copy would lead you to believe there is something superior about the VX-II lenses, but they all come from the same bin. THat is not to criticize the VX-II as it and the others are all very good scopes which are built with all of the best physical and optical compromises to make them a superior optical gunsight, as opposed to just a good telescope. | |||
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I have similar scopes from both VX 1 and VX 11 lines and can not detect any difference whatsoever beyond the click adjustment. Whether this is worth the additional price increment is for each potential buyer to decide. They both work great and there isn't anything in the VX1 price range that I like nearly as well. | |||
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When Leupold made the lineup changes a few years ago that DMB recites---and to be clear whoever he got that from got it off the Leupold website---they reached a new level of marketing hyperbole. But what's more remarkable is that most everyone drank the koolaid. It became accepted fact that the new VXII was the equal of the old VariX III. People talk about the Index Matched Lens System as if Leupold invented lens coatings. I'm no fan of Leupold scopes that for sure, but people should make their own evaluations not drink their Koolaid. LWD | |||
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Some time ago, I e-mailed Leupold asking about their Euro line of scopes. They replied to my question and as I recall added that the new VX-III line had upgraded glass and that the new (at that time) VX -II had the previous Vari-X III glass and so on down the line. No idea if it is true since I have no VX line scopes, only VariX scopes. "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
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I am a dedicated fan of Leupold scopes, primarily because they consistently offer the best combination of optical and physical compromises to make an effective optical gun sight (as opposed to just a good telescope). My oldest Leupold is a Vari-X (not II) 3-9 I puchased new in the early 1960's. Curious thing is that it is 98% of what the newest VX-3 is. I don't drink the ad writers' Koolaid, I just buy the most basic Leupold that suits my needs, recognizing that you can pay hundreds of additional dollars and get little additional scope. Click adjustments are nice if you do the type of shooting which requires easily reversable field adjusments. Outside of that, the VX-I is a dependable, damage-resistent, light-weight, high-resolution instrument that spies an elk or an antelope more effectively than most manufacturer's $1,500 mega scopes. | |||
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Amen! **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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You are flat nuts if you think a VX-1 is anywhere close to, much less "more effective" than, the optical quality of any $1500 scope that I know of. Geesh. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I don't know Gato, I got rid of Swarovskis and the like for Leupolds. They fit the gun and me better. The higher optical quality is useless to me when they don't fit. | |||
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Very simply, from an optical perspective what you now have is approximately the equivelent of a VX-II, (vari-x-III) and a VX-III. JC | |||
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Stonecreek, You statements are incorrect.... As is pointed out very clearly earlier in this thread, there are measurable optical differences between each Leopold lines each time they have been upgraded. The VX-I does not feature the same coated optics as the VX-II, nor does the VX-II feature the same coated optics as the VX-III, nor for that matter does the Vari-X III feature the same coated optics as the VX-III, nor does the VX-III feature the same coated optics as the VX-3. Whether or not you can discern the differences between the optical qualities of these scopes is up to you...However, to state that they are the same quality of scopes is just plain factually incorrect. JC | |||
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I contend that if you can't tell the difference in optical quality, there is no difference. Might just be my old eyes but... | |||
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I see you are a Koolaid drinker. Did you choose the Raspberry or the Grape flavor? | |||
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Having seen a fellow hunter squirm, squint, and bob his head in a struggle to find the sight picture in a $1,000+ European-made scope while the little whitetail pranced away, yes, I'll say that a VX-I would have been more "effective" in that instance. Now, I'll admit that this fellow had more money than skills, but I immediately recognized the problem he was dealing with when I shouldered his rifle and struggled with finding the sight picture myself. But if you were to hold everything juuust sooooo . . . the fleeting image was nice and clear! To bad the first focal plane reticle covered up most of the target when you cranked up the magnification. | |||
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Funny that you would use the anology of "being a koolaid drinker"....As you well know that is a reference to the folks at the peoples temple. The individuals of course proved to be so ignorant that they believed that they knew more than the collective world around them. That ignorance, and their perceived insistance that they were "different", and that they "knew better then the rest of the world"...of course proved to be so extreme that it eventually led to thier own deaths. That staunch denial even in the face of fact most closely describes your actions here in denying commonly accepted scientific data, not the actions of the other members that have been providing that data here in response to the OP's original question. In this case you are claiming that facts do not exist.."simply because you refuse to accept they exist"....pretty much the epitomy of drinking "your own koolaid". Meanwhile, back in reality, not only it is scientifically proven fact that there are major diffences in the optical qualities of these lines of scopes, the differences are so well recognized by not only everyone from the manufacters of the glass, to the original purchases of the glass, to those that buy these optics in the used market...that all agree that the optical quality and functionatility of the VX-3 exceeds that of the VX-III which exceeds that of the VX-II which exceeds that of the VX-I etc etc!! Moral of the story, you can attempt to deflect this discussion from the facts by trying to mock those that accept the facts....but in the end the facts still remain....each one of the new VX lines is optically superior to the line it replaced! Very simply...don't try to shoot the messanger just becuase you are unwilling to accept the message.. JC | |||
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Here is a relative comparison of the optical qualities of each of the traditional VX lenses relative to its replacements. To put things into perspective, the lowest quality Leupold scopes, (The old Vari-X II's and the new bottom of the line Rifleman's, each have a light transmission rate of approximately 80-82%, while the newer VX-III/3's have transmission rates of approximately 95-97%). The one update that needs to be made to this data is the addition of the VX-3 line. Optically, the VX-3 has most of the same qualities as the VX-7 listed on this older data table. JC
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Stupid logic and even stupider to say that a first focal plane reticle would cover up most of the target. That is ridiculous. Nearly as dumb as your position that all Leupie glass is equal. Damn, that's soooooo dummmmmmb. I'm surprised that you would say such an ignorant thing. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Use an optical chart at about 200 yards and if you can't tell the difference you need an appointment with an optomitrist. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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If this was based on anything besides Leupold's press releases and marketing materials I might believe it! Otherwise, it's just koolaid. I do have to admit that the eyebox on Leupold's is pretty darn good---the best I've ever used that's for sure. But I sold my Leupolds for Nikons...... LWD | |||
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Oh, come on, Cat. There is nothing "stupid" about the logic that a scope with much more latitude in eye placement is a more efficient optical gunsight than one which is so restricting that the shooter fails to even be able to shoot at the target because he can't find it. Even a buckhorn sight on a old thuty-thuty is more efficient than a $1,000 scope in that circumstance. And an already thick reticle can grow enormous if it is placed in the focal plane that magnifies it along with the target. Of course it would be an exaggeration to claim that it would cover up a deer, but those reticals can cover an entire target bull, making precision sighting impossible. | |||
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I just took two rifles out to the porch to check something out. Both have Leupold 2-7s, one a VX1 and one a VX11. I can't tell any difference by scanning around the neighborhood. A more sophisticated test may show a difference, but what is the point? I think a lot of the reason for disagreement is based on different hunting styles. I hunt on foot or by boat occasionally. I put a much higher premium on quick target acquisition and portablity than on higher resolution. If you hunt from a stand you will likely disagree. | |||
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Jcchartboy: LWD put it pretty succinctly: You present no "fact" or data from a disinterersted party, you only quote the advertising copy written by the clever fellows the manufacturer hires to help sell their product. Most of the time, those ad copy writers don't know beans about the product, they just know how to write propaganda that sells the product. Taking what they say as fact is called "Drinking the Koolaid". Every generation of Leupolds (excellent though they may be) carries with it a new way to say something more superlative about the product than before. The great thing is that they continue to produce an excellent optical gunsight and the cost of their leader lines of scopes is, in real terms, MUCH less expensive than it was when I first started buying them some 40-odd years ago. | |||
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Wow! I was just lookin' for some insight. Never thought it would turn into a  contest!We Band of Bubbas N.R.A Life Member TDR Cummins Power All The Way Certified member of the Whompers Club | |||
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When he's not frothing at the mouth, Gato makes a good point: The real test of optical quality is in resolution. The only way to measure this accurately is to use a black & white grid target designed for this purpose. In order to compare apples to apples, the instruments you are comparing have to be exactly the same magnification, and the light exactly the same. To complicate things, you will get a bit of eyestrain when squinting through a scope trying to count little black bars, so it is not a fair test of the second scope if you do this back to back because the eyestrain from the first test may impact your vision. So, don't stare for extended periods, but rather for short times, alternating optical instruments. The black and white resolution targets also negate the illusion of "brightness" that is caused by the (usually purposeful) skewing of color by the lens coatings. Manufacturers have found that by altering the image colors slightly from true, the human eye perceives a "brighter" picture simply because our eyes don't recieve all colors identically. You've undoubtedly experience this with "yellow" shooting glasses which tend to increase contrast. It is easy to "trick" the eye into believing that a color-skewed image is brighter than a true color image, even if the two are the same. By using a black and white test target, such perceived differences go away and you are able to better see which instrument has the most resolving power. But back to "effectiveness" in a hunting scope: The old El Paso Weaver scopes had pretty marginal resolving power and were not great in the area of light transmission efficiency. But they were tough as hell, had pinpoint adjustments, and were forgiving in eye placement. So, (as long as they didn't fog up) they were pretty damn effective hunting scopes. No one ever mistook an elk for a mule deer looking through a Weaver; nor did anyone ever fail to be able to draw a bead on a deer within 300 yards so long as the sun was less than thirty minutes below the horizon. On the other hand, some of the scoopes currently in vogue offer various focusing devices, range-finding features, lighted reticles, compensating elevation adjustments, and various other features, which, combined with large size, heavy weight, and tightly limited eye placement make them rather inefficient as hunting scopes. They may be stellar telescopes, but as optical gun sights for general (especially hunting) uses, they are a bit like trying to use the Mount Palomar telescope for spotting antelope from the seat of your pickup truck. That's why I say (stupidly, according to my friend Gato) that a VX-I can be a more "effective" scope than many $1,500 European models. | |||
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Don't worry Drew, As long as you took the time to strap your hip boots on and wade through all the extraneous BS here, the majority of which had absolutely nothing to do with answering your questions, the pertenant facts were presented...and they do speak for themsleves. JC | |||
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stonecreek I knew that there must be some scientific way of measuring optical quality, I just didn't know what it was. I still don't think it matters to me because if they appear to be the same in a hunting situation they are to all practical purposes the same. I agree with your assessments of Leupold usefullness. I've tried some high-dollar euroscopes and had a hard time getting them to work the way I wanted. So now they're gone and I don't forsee me buying anything more expensive than a VX11 ever again, and that would be for a varmint gun, VX1s suit me just fine for big game. | |||
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I've never considered 'fast target aquisition' an important feature. Only things that interest me are clarity and low light performance. Can't shoot what you can't see. Being able to see antlers, or even just the deer during the last few minutes before dark is very important. I've used smaller 'less quality' scopes before and know how they don't perform in low light. Could have killed most deer with the cheapest Tasco ever made - but some of my biggest bucks killed would have survived if I had not been using an expensive scope with large objective lens. S&B 2.5 - 10 x 56. To each his own. | |||
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I don't know much about this stuff. I have purchased Leupold scopes over the years, because when I bought my first good scope it was the best I could afford. I was still in school and saved to buy a Vari X 111. It has been mounted on my old rem 700 and it has taken alot of critters. It has been to Africa more than I have due to its reputation. In my circles it is known as "old black death." I will say that I have never been impressed with this scope. Seems like the Nikons were sharper and brighter--maybe it needs to be sent to the factory for review. However, it has taken many a beating--rifle dropped down a gorge, used as a crutch when I broke my ankle, dropped on a rock on the scope and never lost zero. When I got to the point where I could afford any scope I wanted, I looked around and decided to get a few more leupold's. Why? Because to my eyes the VX 111 was a substantial improvement and they have proven tough over the years for me. My only problem is that I can't bring myself to remove the old scope. I guess I am superstitious. I am afraid to touch anything due to the good luck my old rifle has brought me. I will be leaving for Namibia in a few weeks and I went out today to cap a few rounds. The scope still sucks. To me it is dull and not bright nor sharp like my nikon, or the VX111, or euro scopes, yet after sitting in the safe for the last year or two, I squeezed off 4 rounds into less than an inch at 100 yards from sitting at a bench no bags. Moral of the story for me is to not mess with it, but the improvement from the Vari x to the VX is very clear. Maybe I will change scopes when I return, or maybe not. I have been trying to change the scope for 5 years--maybe next year. And the two I am comparing are both 3.5-10 by 40. Regards, PG www.trolgar.com | |||
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PG: I don't blame you for not wanting to change out that scope! Have you tried adjusting the focus by turning the ocular bell? Could the lenses have become scratched or clouded through the years due to wiping in the field with slightly dirty material? Although that's not really a problem covered by warranty, Leupold will usually replace dulled lenses if you'll send it in for a check up. Good luck in Namibia! Ain't it a great place! What area are you going to and what are you hunting? | |||
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Sounds like you do most of your shooting from a blind, European style. Nothing wrong with that! European scopes tend to be designed for just such hunting. Since Europeans frequently hunt at night from a blind, they like to have maximum target definintion in their scopes, and their shooting is always slow and deliberate. The 8x56 is almost perfect for this type of shooting, providing the largest exit pupil a human eye could possibly use -- 7mm -- and having plenty of magnification to provide good target definition at 50 to 75 yards. Hunting rifles which may need to be fired offhand, quickly, and sometimes at running game need a scope that requires less time to get into action. | |||
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Send Leupold a request for "customer service." It's NOT Koolaid. I emailed an INQUIRY about replacement knob caps. They sent me SIX in about two days -- Got my mailing out of their warranty file from previous purchases. Sent me SIX caps -- two gloss, two black, two silver -- with a note: "You didn't specify color. Now you can mix and match." Tossed in a few "favor items" in the package: lens wipes, a brush, a catalog and a factory rep contact who recognizes my voice on the phone. Go have a look at Saeed's optics. He can afford anything. What's he got? | |||
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Stonecreek, I checked the scopes again today. The VX is brighter and sharper. The lens on the Vari X do not appear scratched or clouded. More to the point, the scope has always been what it is--meaning it has not degraded over the years. I have toyed with the thought of sending it back since I first purchased it. However, it just keeps up with its reputation. Thanks for the thumbs up on Namibia. I have never been there, though my rifle has. Been to Zim three times and to SA a few years, so I am looking forward to something new. Hunted DG and PG, but this trip is PG. Looking for that 92 inch Kudu and 42 inch unicorn.  I am looking forward to doing some hunting with the camera at Estosha. Will be hunting two hours north of Windhoek.Regards, PG | |||
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The new VX3 is an improved version and has the same glass as the VX7, and it features a Dual Erector Assembly, Xtended Twilight Lens System, Diamond Coat Lens coatings, and is purged with Argon/Krypton gasinstead of Nitrogen. Th VX3 is now a lot closer to the VX7. However that new VX3's still has a 3x erector system unlike the VX7 which has a 4x erector system. - Dual spring erector system (same as VX7 scope) with - Cryogenically treated high-strength aluminum adjustment dials (finger-adjustable). - Xtended Twilight lens system (same as VX7) specifically targeting wave lengths found in low light conditions. - Diamond Coat 2 external lens coatings for the highest level of scratch resistance. - Edge blackened lenses to reduce glare and diffusion, improving resolution and contrast. - Second generation Krypton Argon Gas (same as VX7 and Mark 4 tactical scopes). It is able to handle more recoil .... the twin bias spring exerts up to 30 percent more holding force on the erector virtually eliminating erector system backlash and stress on the vital internal workings of the scope, for longer life. It still features that sleek profile and clean lines for low mounting( VX3 3.5-10x40 mm), especially the samller occular lens than most rival products, so as not to be in the way when the bolt is lifted. The new VX3 demands a new look .... Warrior | |||
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Next year they will introduce the VX-tres.  | |||
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No, I think that Leupold's ad writers are definately taking more direct aim at European scopes, especially those from Germany and Austria, so I predict the next line will be the "VX-Drei". | |||
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The VX3 is now a lot closer to the VX7. I think the VX7 is in trouble - it is way over priced. WARRIOR | |||
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I came across this on NitroExpress.com iro Leupold scopes as we have heard much speculation lately and this info seams to be as close as one can get it out of the horse's mouth: "Re: Are Leupolds still made in the USA? #105154 - 15/05/08 02:37 PM I posed this question to a friend who just recently retired from Leupold. This was his answer: "All Leupold Gold Ring Products are made and assembled in Beaverton, Oregon, USA, with exception of the lenses which are procured from Germany and the Far East. Important: Although lens procurement is from foreign sources, the lenses themselves are designed, specified, and quality controlled by Leupold. Some of the glass reticles are also made in Germany. Not because they are less expensive (they're not), but simply because US manufacturers could not meet Leupold's specifications. As an aside, since Nightforce was mentioned, I believe Nightforce are made, assembled, totally outside the US." I hope this helps. xausa" | |||
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