Surprised that leupold has discontinued there 4x scope ..takes care of about 90 % of all hunting
situations and must be the most reliable scope that was made

Yeah, I have a 30-06 that was going to get one, they discontinued some of their most practical products.

Yes, M 98, the world's gone mad. Marketing drives bigger and bigger variable ranges, beyond actual need or mechanical sense. I just wish for something in scopes like the return to vinyl records in music. Ironically, vinyl is not superior to CDs except in providing a bigger 'canvas' for the cover art. The little old scopes I grew up with, however, had mechanicals and specs demonstrably better than the crap served up now.

For instance, Leupold 4x scopes sold up to 1965 often claimed a field of view of 35 feet at 100 yards with an eye relief between 2.5 and 4.5 inches. That was a power sufficient for big game far beyond point-blank range and an FoV big as their later variables at 3x. Though I doubt the ocular got smaller, the FoV shrank to 30 feet in their following M8 model with the constantly centred reticle - and has remained that size since. That stopping of the field, necessary to mask glare from the erector tube when a scope was badly mounted, often caused much tunnel vision, though Leupold was not the worst in this regard.

The mechanical instability engendered by modern scopes having a spring-suspended erector tube is an even bigger issue IMHO, but too big to discuss here. PM me your address and I'll send you a book about it.

S338
I kind of have done the full circle...started off with the 4x went to the variables and then the really big variables which have got their place in the scheme of things....i use the ziess 3-12x56 with an illuminated dot, but that is such a purpose specific scope, i only use that for sambar when there coming out really late , that red dot is magic with the big objective lens !!!!apart from that im back to the 4x leupold its adequate for 90 to 95% of hunting around the world.
The quality of most of the scopes is questionable...i have noticed how leupold stuff has gone down in quality over the years,,,there more interested in marketing and fancy names than quality
iFOUND A few ziess 4x scopes a few years back...they were so good especially the reticles wide duplex and a pretty thin cross hair with the good optics its no big deal to use them on longer shots, but i guess thats history
i think i have got 6 4x power leupold wide duplex scopes, just wish the quality would be better
you are spot on about the erector system supported by springs D echols has spoken at length about it
i have got one of the now discontinued ziess 3-9x36 scopes great scope great optics but a bit heavy for its size,,,,i think that scope had 4000 shots put through it out of the 06 then fell apart just after coming back from zim and shooting leopard...sent it back and they rebuilt it from scratch,,,so that was good
Daniel

I also was disappointed to see Leupold drop most of their hunting optic offerings. It seems the tactical/long range craze is driving sales and Leupold had to drop low volume products to focus on market demand.

I understand it, just don't like it as I also prefer the smaller, simpler optics for my hunting needs.

We need a new topic.
Is a 30-06 and 4x scope a primitive weapon?

I 'll send you a copy of Light at the Start of the Tunnel tomorrow, Daniel. It's a personal journey into understanding the marketing bullshit that lead us from mechanical integrity in the early 1950s and optical excellence in the European '60s and '70s to a scope world rapidly going nuts.

You'll probably find my thoughts on illumination and massive variables a bit quaint but I'm an old-timer who thinks recreational hunters, at least, owe themselves reliability and a challenge and game animals a sporting chance.

Cheers
- 'Sam'

S338
I cant agree with you more
I would not mind paying $1000 - 1500 for a good 4x scope..only problem there are none around
sad state of affairs

PHIL
you forgot to attach the 200 gn nosler @2700

I am not a youngster either and started with a Leupold 4x on my first .243. I would not trade my VX-5hd 2-10 for a new 4x and 500 bucks. I only use my rifle scopes for shooting stuff during naturally lit hours, but I am a huge fan of Leupolds 5HDs in the 2-10 and 3-15 versions.

I guess, Quintus, that a 4x scope plus $500 is probably close to the cost of your scope, anyway. The problem with high-multiple variables, though, is the makers have to add complications at odds with reliability, as the next thread suggests. For many years making variables of more than 3x multiples (eg 3-9x) was thought something of a miracle, even in the old scopes with solidly located erector sets.

The matter is worst with modern scopes with constantly centred reticles because the power scroll is part of a 'hinged' erector tube, held by springs against the turret screws and vulnerable to recoil inertia - the more junk you have in there, the greater the chance something will be damaged over time.

I am not arguing that they have more to go wrong. I would still have crank windows on my truck if I could. I am saying, I have used the 5x and 6x variables with great success and enjoyment, as designed. I have been able to take advantage of the huge field of view and great light transmission on the low end and assess game and place shots precisely on the high end. All things fail over time. I use my gear enough I will know when it fails and with Leupold I will send it back for repair. I am fortunate and have back-ups and am willing to assume the risk that my scope may fail at the worst possible moment. I assume the same risk with my primers, bullets, boots etc. And that scope trade scenario plus the Money was supposed to be close. That's what I'm saying, dollar for dollar I appreciate what the new optics offer, if not ultimate reliability. Although that said, with several of the newer scopes I have had no issues. Granted I have only had 4 years use on the first ones, but thousands of rounds and temps from 90 to minus 25 degrees and elevations from 500 to 6500 feet. So far they have been more than functional and defect free for what I can detect.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
We need a new topic.
Is a 30-06 and 4x scope a primitive weapon?

Phil can you kindly make that suggestion to MDC so we have that may as an option to use during Alternative Weapon deer season.

It makes perfect sense to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
I am not arguing that they have more to go wrong. I would still have crank windows on my truck if I could. I am saying, I have used the 5x and 6x variables with great success and enjoyment, as designed. I have been able to take advantage of the huge field of view and great light transmission on the low end and assess game and place shots precisely on the high end. All things fail over time. I use my gear enough I will know when it fails and with Leupold I will send it back for repair. I am fortunate and have back-ups and am willing to assume the risk that my scope may fail at the worst possible moment. I assume the same risk with my primers, bullets, boots etc. And that scope trade scenario plus the Money was supposed to be close. That's what I'm saying, dollar for dollar I appreciate what the new optics offer, if not ultimate reliability. Although that said, with several of the newer scopes I have had no issues. Granted I have only had 4 years use on the first ones, but thousands of rounds and temps from 90 to minus 25 degrees and elevations from 500 to 6500 feet. So far they have been more than functional and defect free for what I can detect.

I agree with you on the crank windows, Quintus. It is a disgrace that all 4x4s, at least, do not have them on the driver's door, if only to get out in the case of deep-water immersion. Were I making them, I'd put crankhandles on the gasoline automatics, too, for when all the electrical decadence flattens the battery. (High compression might make starting a diesel that way a bridge too far.)

All kinds of scopes can fail - half of my collection are cripples bought for research when writing my book. So, my outlook is just to limit the failures, esp. when you're in the wilderness on an expensive hunt. The best warranty in the world is worthless then.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
We need a new topic.
Is a 30-06 and 4x scope a primitive weapon?

That's called the Old Standby, just plain works!

Im feeling dated, most of my rifles have a Leupold 3X or 4x, I do have a few 2x7x28s as that old scope is the same size as the 4X..and the 30-06 and 7x57 are my go to cal under most all conditions.

I can't stand big bulky rifles or scopes, never could never will..they are an abortions of the lean mean concept I tend to live by..

but hay! I too need updating and it ain't gonna happen!

To the poster who said he would give $1000 to $1500 for a 4X, I have a brand new one, and about 3 or 4 like new, How many do you want? I'll sell them all for less than that as a package, like $500 each buyer take all!!! All Leupolds varx 11 and the new one is the variX3

Posted this in another thread. Just sold the last variable power scope that I owned. Now I’ll keep things simple:

Ruger 10/22 with a Leupold 4x Rimfire Compact
Ruger 44 Carbine with a Leupold 4x Compact
Pre 64 FWT in 3006 with a Leupold M8 4x

Here is my two cents. I have had 4 power scopes but prefer a low range variable scope usually like a 1.5 x 5 or a 2.5 x 8 and it has worked for me from woods hunting in the thick stuff to over 300 yds with great results. As far as Leupold goes I am disappointed in the company over the past few years. They have moved away from their base products and have taken away MANY of the best scopes that ever were. They are following others and are loosing that that has made them great. For the past 40 years I have used only Leupold scopes but the last scope I bought was NOT Leupold and that’s because the moved away from what I wanted and needed. The were a great company but I believe they are on the down slide and that is unfortunate.

Which may explain why used Leupold scopes that are in high condition don’t last long on eBay.

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:
Which may explain why used Leupold scopes that are in high condition don’t last long on eBay.

100%! The secondary market for older, good condition, especially gloss scopes is very strong. I like a nice gloss scope on a gloss rifle.

It got my last Leupold 4X a couple of years ago. I had the custom shop set the parallax for 300 yds. I had them install target turrets. I used small paper labels to mark the elevation turret 200, 300 and 600 yds. I use it on my AR match rifle for CMP competition. The price was a fraction of what the sponsored shooters used. I feel no disadvantage.

I also have straight 4X scopes on my big game rifles. I fail to see any reason for a variable in that application. I have seen several variables break in the field. Anything that complicates the basic rifle and scope is questionable in actual hunting conditions.
That is based on 50 years of experience. I think Leupold made a very poor decision when the discontinued it.

Thanks to all for their thoughts.

I think there are 3 Leupold 4X scopes in the safe and I have been happy with 2 of them, the 3rd (heavy post with cross hairs) is on my Father's rifle that always worked for him but I don't shoot it. I have several Leupold variables and have never had a failure.

I'm looking for something to put on a 375 Ruger and I keep coming back to Leupold's 1.5 to 4.

Ive yet to have a situation wherein I felt the need for more than a 4X Leupold or a 3X for that matter..and Ive hunted more than the average Joe by a good deal. I even like the real old ones, but they were a pain to get sighted in with centered cross hairs..Sambarman has got me playing with some old cheap scopes like a 2.5 Weaver and a 4X weaver, its fun mounting them, takes a lot of patience but the end result is surprising, thanks my friend, you proved to me one never gets to old to learn..