A friends son is a marine going to Afganistan soon and wants advise on small, light pocket type binoculars. The son says insurgents often take shot at our guys from 500 meters and beyond and its hard to spot them with the low power scopes mounted on their guns. Since all members of the team do not have binoculars he wants something light to carry to help him identify the location of the shooters. Any advise as to power, size or brand will be welcome.
Thanks, Chief.

I might suggest an alternative. A Leica pocket range finder with 7X power. Great optics for a range finder, 8oz and your son can tell his buddy's the range of the target / sniper.
They run from the mid $400.00's to $500.00 (900 yard to 1200 yard ranging capability. I believe Camera land has some for $429.00
Very light and rugged! Optically as good as the best pocket binocs.

EZ

The "pocket binos" are too fuzzy.
Take some "real" but small like a Swarovski SLC 8x30 or an EL 10x32 if You could afford... They are both crystal sharp and a real help to spot anything far behind...

Klaus

I use these for work & for the price .. they work great !!!
http://swfa.com/Steiner-7x50-O...Binocular-P5597.aspx

But, if " $$$ " is a non issue?
http://swfa.com/Steiner-Comman...Binoculars-C379.aspx

Or a more compact model & less $$$$.
http://swfa.com/Steiner-8x30-M...-Binocular-P801.aspx

Just an additional " FYI "reminder ... use a sun shield of some type, as not to give away position from sunglare reflections, off of the bino or scope optics.

PAPI

Here's the thing, a Marine may well be expected to carry 70lbs of gear. Even if he's dropped his pack, he is humping a lot of weight in ammo, rifle, vest, helmet field gear, etc. He is also gonna be moving quickly under fire and landing hard on the ground, against walls and vehicles as well. Conditions will be high temperature - 140F is possible, to below freezing at night in the Hindu Kush.

Small, lightweight, tough and inexpensive are the desired factors in any additional gear. The rangefinder is a great idea but I wouldn't pay for anything like a Leica. Something more reasonable like a Cabela's or Bushnell will work as well and without the concern of breaking or damaging an expensive optic. Otherwise, any mini-binos in the 7-8-9 or 10x power and costing $75-$200 would be good.

There is no need for crystal clear optics costing $$$ for use under combat conditions. The use will be short term so eye strain is not an issue.

And Semper Fi

Just another thought .. A buddy of mine used one of the below, which he frequently attached to a camera.
http://swfa.com/Bushnell-Disco...ing-Scopes-C447.aspx

PAPI

He can carry some little tiny binos in his breast pocket but I assure you he will need something that can gather more light and that provides a better field of view.

I'd advise the Steiner Military 8x30R and, if you can find them, the ARD anit-reflective objective covers. I can personally attest to the usefulness of these units. These are a fantastic compromise of optical quality, ruggedness, light weight, and price. They are very well proven in the very theater he will be serving in. Anit-reflective covers will help reduce his chances of being targeted.

"This 8 x 30 is lightweight, compact, and fits easily in a coat pocket; brilliant Mil. Spec. optics deliver excellent performance in low light, and at only 18 oz., their nighttime or low light performance is truly impressive."

http://www.steiner-binoculars....oculars/law/481.html

http://www.steiner-binoculars....oculars/law/ARD.html

Before I would use a Steiner (which has unsharp rims and not a high quality image), I would definetly take a Leica pocket binocular - there You would see more deatils with, just the light gathering compared to bigger lenses is low. But personaly I would go with what I suggested first: a 30/32 mm SLC or EL bino - the optical quality is very high, so YOu will be able to located smallest details on a big distance...

Apparently the combat experience as a Marine by those posting their recommendations in this thread is limited.

One of you suggests a 3 lbs. spotting scope that can be attached to a camera - 35mm SLR I bet - while others insist on full size, expensive binos such as Swaro Leica, etc. Clearly you don't understand the mission of a grunt. Rim quality or clarity has no importance since the Marine will use duct tape to tape over the objective lenses, leaving only a small horizontal opening in the middle of the lens through which he will search for puffs of dust/muzzle blast type targets.

If the Marines want him to call artillery or run recon missions, they will provide larger binos and appropriate training. Re-read the OP. Just my opinion based upon training, experience and education. Yours may differ.

Semper Fi
3rdMarDiv

Well, he did ask for suggetions ... And I know for a fact, that all of the items " I " suggested , were " IN FACT ", used by a few friends.. The " PICTURES " they sent me , were of very , very good quality !

" I " never served in the " MILITARY " !

p.s. : Don't assume the " Military Brass " will always provide everything for our " Troops ".. My Shooting Club have been very active in sending " Care Packages ",which included " GUN CLEANING EQUIPMENT "..

PAPI

My vote

http://www.optik-pro.de/docter...cter-10x42-b/p,11624

Papi,

Take a chill pill. Since you don't have any military experience, as predicted, I understand that you don't get it. "small, light pocket type" optic was the request in the OP.

I was trained to assume nothing. Reusables and expendables, such as gun cleaning gear and toilet paper, often suffer shortages in combat. All Marines know what field expediency means. Firearms can be cleaned with water if necessary and they learned to do it in boot camp. No Marine officer fails to look after the welfare of his Marines and neither do Marine NCOs, but combat has many challenges other than killing the enemy while avoiding the same fate. Glad you and your club are supporting our troopers and Marines.

Semper Fi

I try not to get into any negative debates with anyone, which just detracts from the original topic.
So, lets just end this with " My two Clubs Support our Troops " with any reasonable request "

" Oct, 2010 Shooting Clubs Newsletter:
Care Packages - .... continues to head up our program dedicated to providing our military men and women in harm’s way with care packages. If you are interested in participating or contributing, please contact ... at 818...... or at ..... .net "

Just the plain old " FACTS " .. on my part !!

PAPI
CHILLING

I agree 8x30 or 10x30 would be ideal.

Pocket binos suck, and if they suck they won't get used.

Probably doesn't need Swaro, Zeiss or Leica but I would rather have that kind of quality than Bushnell.

Leupold 8x30 would be a good midpoint.

I have spent over 2 years in Afghanistan in the mountains. I would prefer good quality to shit.

The Nikon Sportsters are very small inexpensive and decent binoculars. SWFA and CameralandNY both carry them. Cameraland has some demo and refurb models as well. Optically, they aren't the best, but as you noted, that's not what he's getting them for. The smaller Nikon Trailblazer models might fill the bill as well.

LWD

Minox HG 8x33 for $400 at Cam-Land is going to be about the best bang for the buck. The glass is absolutely superb and even though it's down just a bit on power, the sharpness of the glass is worth it.

They aren't pocket sized, but they are small enough to fit in a small pouch.

I also like the range-finder idea, but that's not going to be great for lots of glassing.

Okay, back to the topic, with some " Hands On " experience !

quote:

small, light pocket type binoculars. The son says insurgents often take shot at our guys from 500 meters and beyond and its hard to spot them with the low power scopes mounted on their guns. Since all members of the team do not have binoculars he wants something light to carry to help him identify the location of the shooters. Any advise as to power, size or brand will be welcome.

Test: 100 yards + (Background view out to 200 +++ yards/ between building & open ground areas) very clear , Southern Calif Weather.

( Cell phone & Case for size comparison ).
1. Steiner 7 x 50 (Blk) : Great view , Crystal Clear, almost like seeing objects in a " 3-D effect ", depth perseception is very detailed.
2. Leupold 9 x 25 (Grn): Good, but somewhat hazing , not as good in the depth perception on background view (100 + yards).
3. BSA 8 x 21 (Blk): A decent kids toy, but thats exactly what I bought them for (3), on sale @ 15 bucks (?) " Big Five Sporting Goods ".

Just an additional " FYI " .. The " Leupolds " are not very usefull in low light conditions (Overcast weather / Wind Storm ?) & almost useless in the dark, compared to the " Steiners "..

So, in my opinion.., get a larger type " Binocular ", than settling for a smaller pocket type.

A pair of " 7x30 or 8x30 " would be my personal choice. Or in this case, friendly advice.. !

quote:

Or a more compact model & less $$$$.
http://swfa.com/Steiner-8x30-M...-Binocular-P801.aspx

PAPI

We clearly disagree.

Those Leupold 9x25 pocket binos are excellent IMO. I've owned a pair since 1974. They have not been made for many years and are sought after by folks familiar with them. I've used mine in all terrain and weather conditions. Because of their size and weight they are always with me, while my 8x30 and 10x42 Leicas remain in the vehicle.

No bino without NV capability is worth a shit at night, which is why Marines have NVGs. The rifle sights referred to in the OP are most often fixed power from 0-3x, have NV capability and are designed specifically for CQB, not 500 yard shooting.

As to our OZ friend D99, I appreciate your service in the Stan, however your mission is not that of a U.S. Marine.

If you are anywhere near the Santa Clara Co. range we could meet with our optics and compare them - Wed, Thur or Fri are best for me.

I've had the " Leupold " for approx 20 years. I also did state they were " GOOD ", as opposed to a kids toy (Junk)!!

Thats why " I " bought the " Leupolds " as a " Good Pocket Sized Bino ". And like you, they go everywhere with me, along with my " 7x50 Steiners "(approx 7 years). I use both for work, not play !

So, you are really not informing me.., on anything I don't already know. I've had some real life " Hands On Experience ", using them both.

But, the " Leupolds " really aren't as " Great ", compared to the " 7x50 Steiners ", which are always with me. I have the luxury of being able to carry both, & grabbing one or the other, based upon my particular needs.

I never stated any of them were " NV " rated (Your enhanced version).
However, the " 7x50 " have been recommended, for low light conditions.

Now, since " I " already own both & have tried to provide a fair comparison (Larger vs Pocket size), to a new " Buyer ", to be used under " Hostile Enviroments / Combat Conditions ", etc !

Get a good quality : " 7 x 30 or 8 x30 "

My final post on this topic, as I've tried providing some " Friendly " advice, & would rather not get into any mindless debates, over the " Keyboards "..

Have fun @ your Shooting Range !

PAPI
CHILLING

I just returned in August. I took a set of Pentax DCF SP 10x43 and I bought a cheap Stokes 15x45 spotter from Doug. I can not remember the name of the spotter, but it was $200. They were both utilized and cvame in very handy.

Gentlemen, thanks for the replies. They are all informative and I have passed them on to my friend.
Chief

Nope, not a Marine.

Even if I was I would rather have something that gathered more light than pocket binos.

I have used a 56mm objective at night in a lot of bad places. I'd pack the weight rather than use shit.

Leupold binos are not made to suck the last few hours of light out of the night. Even if Leupold built a 8x56 binocular it wouldn't matter, because the American hunters they are selling them to have never sat in a high seat from 6pm until 4am to shoot a wildboar or fox. So they don't have to build them with that idea in mind.

I am not saying that 8x56 or 9x63 binoculars are ideal for military field work. But when your life depends on it More is More!

I am listing to the guy is actually getting shot at. Folks who are heros behind their keyboards want to tell the guy what he needs, but i will listen to him

The Leica Ultravid 10x25's are INCREDIBLE! They totally blew me away, and I will only use good glass. My eyes want to vomit when looking through cheap or poor glass. I can't believe Leica was able to achieve such a great binocular in such a small package. i have used them for many hours in the filed now and am speaking from real world experience.

As for light gathering, they work extremely well from 15 minutes before official sunrise to 15 minutes after official sunset. They are pretty dark the other part of the day.

They are light, have a sight picture equal to full size Leica Trinovids, and blow away anything but the best Swarovski and Zeiss glasses of the same size. If I was getting shot at and needed a small binocular to find the dickhead at 500 yards, then I would inist on the Leic 10x25 Ultravids.

The Marines already are issued the Steiner 7x50 military but you can opt for a set of 8x30 compacts that will provide the same durability in a smaller package. The reason they are the ideal choice is because you don't have to focus them like all other models. In a combat scenario this could make the difference between life and death. Keep in mind you have to expose yourself to view the battlefield and it takes time to re focus on every distant object.

This choice is simple.

Former Gulf War Veteran,

i agree that stieners dont have the best optics for the money but there decent and theres not a more rugged set of bincos on the market which is just as important for a situation like this. Id look at a set of 8x30s. other good brands that wont break the bank are vortex minox and zen-rays and for a bit less one of the best bang for the buck binoculars on the market are the nikon atbs. I have a set of 8x42s and alothough there not optically as good as my vortex razors they are close and cost about a quarter of what the razors run. Do a search for them on line and you will see that im not the only one that thinks there a bargin

Question taken from systems analysts point of view, a couple of things occur to me:

Anything with a 50mm objective was originally designed for ship board use where identifying targets in low light conditions is critical.

It follows that for an infantryman weight is critical. Of second consideration is resolution and color fidelity. (This the reason that armies are spending so much on digital camo ie to fool cheap optics.)

I would therefore recommend 30mm or so objective from best optics you can afford. Therefore Leica, swaro, etc are the best choice.

Secondly, young eyes should have the opportunity to compare glass themselves. If I had the job of picking out targets in a difficult environment, cost within reason would not be an issue.

Military optics often goes to the low bidder in a one size fits all decision model.

Systems analysts don't make decisions, they only design decision models. There you have a fast pass at one.