That is all well and good, but the more precision Long Range benchrest shooters use mainly Nightforce and then Leupold next. Not saying the brands you mentioned are bad, they just ain't up to the more precise benchrest shooting.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Pegleg,
Gene Buckys and Jackie Schmidt are locking the erector tubes in BR scopes. Gene manufactures a first class external adjustable scope base and ring setup. The erector tube on Leupold and other scopes change POA from time to time because the erector tube will move around. It has a leaf spring to keep pressure on the erector tube, but it doesn't work. If the tube moves .0001" it will be .050-.100" at the target at 100 Yards. You cannot predict when it will happen. Benchrest matches are decided by thousandths of an inch. You would never notice this on a hunting rifle probably.
A new scope has entered the arena called a March. It is about $2500, but the initial reviews are very good.
Butch

Butch,
Is that thread backlash?

I avoid that problem in guitar tuning [where tension is added by going counter-clockwise] by always going clockwise below the note and the counter clockwise up to the note.

In a scope I would assume right hand threads, so in order to go one click counter-clockwise, one should first go counter clockwise two clicks and the then clockwise one click. Finishing on the clockwise adjustment keeps the erector position dependent on the threads and not the spring.

You would have to see the inside of the scope. The erector tube pivots in a socket on one end an is acted on in the opposite end by your vertical and horizontal adjustors. Opposite of those is a leaf spring. If you have a real accurate rifle and and make a scope adjustment, it may take as many as 5 rounds for the scope to settle in. What I'm saying is that a very accurate varmint or BR rifle would be needed to see this. I always adjust a scope the same way as on a lathe or mill. I keep the slack going one way. Charley Hood makes a scope checker. It allows you to mount 2 scopes on a BR rifle. You sight them in at 100 yards And shoot several groups. You will find some of them move their point of aim up to .100. To do this you need a known good scope to be able to check your others. The frustrating thing is that they will shoot a flier ocaisonally[sp] and you might not be at fault, it could be your scope. This is the reason that people are buying $1000 Leupold BR scopes and spending another $600 to remedy the problem. Nightforce has very little problem with this, but they are heavy. The new March scopes show a lot of promise, but are very expensive and a little hard to get. They are made in Japan by a company called KOTO and they make camera lenses.
Butch

I asked my father today about backlash in gun sights.

He says in the M53 and M55, where he was a grunt engineer that designed the barrel equilibrator and vehicle suspension, and in the M107 and M110 where he was chief engineer, the gun sight elevation was a split spur gear with one twisting one way to elevate the gun and the other turning at the same time, but with the offsetting torque of a pre loaded torsion bar. The force of friction and 20 ton barrel were small compared to the recoil forces.

I would have thought the the force in reaction to the gun was in line with the gun [trunnion driven by the gears] but he tells me that the gun recoils about the "center of percussion", which evidently if off trunnion center due to the gun healing up in recoil.

I don't know if this elevation and turret would help a scope which must be a gimbal at one end of an erector tube and a spring opposing a screw at the other end.

I noticed yesterday that if I turn my Leupold IV turret far enough counter clock wise, the reticle stops moving on the target. When I try to return to zero, the scope is off by multiples of 360 degrees on the turret. I have to bore sight to find the correct zero of 5 possible.

I think I had a screw loose.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by butchlambert:
Pegleg,
I don't know for sure what you are asking. I've had Seibert boosted scopes and crosshair replacements by him. I think that is what Bill does also. Locking the internals shouldn't affect those mods and your parallex adjustments are not affected. I have photos if you are interested. Send me an email address to papawlambert@starband.net

Thanks for the reply Butch, but I was talking about the thing that Walley does when he replaces the leaf spring with a coil spring and that little oil changing spout is installed to hold the coil spring. I'm sure you have seen these on the firing line.

Pegleg,
I have seen hundreds that Cecil Tucker has done like that. I didn't know that Wally had ever done that type mod before. My 45X comp. series had that mod done before I had it frozen.
Butch

TNEKKCC
Not that many in Asia.
Many brands, like VCRs, few places build them.
There is no Night Force factory, it is built on the same production line as many other brands.[/quote]

Reply to ; Tnekkcc

Yes there is a Night Force factory in Idaho !. That's a well established fact !.
I just wanted to clarify my statement about so many scope manufactures . Actually what I should have said is there are so many Scope Brands !.
Most optics : Most " not all are made in China !The exceptions are a couple of the German manufactures as well as a couple of USA manufactures !. How ever even some of those company's acquire lens from off shore manufactures !. It really comes down to a choice of what the individual buyer is looking for !. Hunting , target , Plinking . Now it would look a little strange to have a custom built rifle say in a 338 Lapua or a Varmint with a $ 60.00 scope attached to them !. Put a $ 2K scope on an inexpensive 22 rim fire for smacking back yard ground squirrels isn't my Idea of intelligence either !.

My Grand Father used to tell me about certain types of people and their money parting ways !.

His most famous quote was . Theres three kinds of people you never want to trust !. Doctors Lawyers and a Politician !. Because at one time or another they will all have their hands in your pockets !!!.

Gramps also said , Never drink cheap booze , treat a lady like a lady and buy the best quality of anything you can !. That way you only have to buy it once !!!.

Who is that says Talk is Cheap , Good Whiskey cost money !. Maybe he knew my Grand father or his Grand Father was in the same out fit as mine !. ...

Nightforce has superior optics ? How come, when the europeans hook them up to their fancy photo spektral meters, which measure light transmition down to .1%, the Nightforce scopes come in under brands like Zeiss, Leupold and Swarovski ?
My friends, that shoot the 1000 yds. benchrest matches, prefer Nightforce over Leupold because the one pound heavier Nightforce Benchrest Series scopes filter out mirage better. That's fine for that. But when the sun goes down, the same scope isn't nearly as bright as the brands which don't filter out so much blue spectrum light.
Nightforce scopes are tough ? That's funny. You don't see many on .458 Lott's or 416's. They don't hold up nearly as long as the much lighter scopes from Leupold.
The US military only uses them on a very limited basis. They use lots of Leupolds and S&B's. E

oheremicus, you are full of shit!!!
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
oheremicus, you are full of shit!!!
Butch

Guys thank you for all the help ( I feel like I started a war), but I bought a NightForce NXS 5.5-22x56 & it should be here next week. I'll be sure & give a report.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
oheremicus, you are full of shit!!!
Butch

Butch,

You hit the nail right on the head...

$bob$

quote:

sdeshazo

You made an EXCELLENT decision.

You will not be disappointed.

$bob$

Id have gone for the NF over the Leupold as well but the one thing that really bugs me on my NF is the way you have to partly dismantle it to change the brightness of the illuminated reticule.

Why on such an otherwise great scope does there have to be such a crapy 2bit system for changing the IR setting?

And id agree with whoever it was above who said that the zeiss wins out ove the NF in low light.

Nute
The only time you need to adjust the brightness of a lit reticle is if it is used in day light hours and the scope is not equipped with a daylight visible reticle. Dusk to dark one setting is absolutely sufficient. The system is absolutely not crapy and 2bit.

Perry

quote:

The only time you need to adjust the brightness of a lit reticle is if it is used in day light hours and the scope is not equipped with a daylight visible reticle. Dusk to dark one setting is absolutely sufficient. The system is absolutely not crapy and 2bit.

You obviously dont shoot at night with a lamp - otherwise you`d realise that the ablity to adjust the brighness is very useful. If you shoot through dusk and on into night with a lamp its vital.

On a scope of that price the system absolutely is very 2 bit and crapy.

Clarification comment on Nightforce illumination adjustment; Nightforce offers two different models, the NXS and the Benchrest.

The NXS is built to US Military specifications that require the illumination adjustment to be protected.

The Benchrest has an exterior illumination adjustment dial.

Nute
What kind of lamp are you talking about. If the target is lit how bright does your reticle need to be. I do shoot at night and have found that dark is dark and have never needed to adjust the reticle brightness. I keep mine just bright enough to see as to not lose the target for the reticle. What are your experieces? Do you adjust your brightness level for each target or through out the night?

Perry

Perry - a lot of the shooting we do (in the UK) this time of year is with a lamp - i use a lighforce 140 or 170 both of which put out a lot of watts.

Its not unusual to start at dusk when you can just about do without the lamp and so need the IR very low so as not to kill your vision of the target through the scope.

In full dark for most shots you need to tweak it up a bit but we tend to use red filters on the lights which stop the target getting spooked so much.

Its not unusual to find you pick up something just on the edge of the lamp range when you want the IR as dim as you can get it to give you the best possible chance of a clear view of the target. Shooting foxes this quite often happens.

To be honest having the IR green would be the best answer. It seems daft using a red filter with red IR but red filters do seem to spook foxes less.

Nute,

Do you use a predator call in conjuntion when spotlighting? You should.

We find it works a treat with sly old foxes that have been shot at before, who drop their heads under the light, they just can't help themselves, the head comes up and their lights go out

Evening Blair - We use squeeks (either mp3 or man made) simulating a wabbit distress call but many of them are wise to that as well.

The lamp picks up the eyes from way off but as we have sheep , badgers, deer and god knows what else wandering about you have to be 100% certin of an Id before you let one go.

We had a couple of people injured here when muppets shot at eyes without a body ID. The recipient of one hit later said he was out looking for his dog (in pitch darkness, no torch, on land he shouldnt have been on ).

I use night vision quite a bit as well but my trusty old NV got dropped and now dosent like any sort of recoil induced stress