Opening week of deer season and I had already shot a doe with the 45-70, so I wanted to shoot one with my 7mm which the Simmons WTC 6.5x20 is on. Never did see a good buck, but I did have a nasty wipeout on a downed fence I didn't see. I slammed the rifle scope-first onto some big rocks. Damages seemed pretty severe, big huge dent/gash on my stock, real deep scratch on my barrel (kind of a custom, single flute, figure I shaved off at least an ounce), and the scope looked trashed. My knee also hurt. Turns out I tore my MCL, but other than that everything seems ok. The scope has several deep gashes, the adjustable objective thing got bent, and the scope cap had pieces of metal inside it, although I eventually got it off. After all this, the scope seems fine after I tapped the adj. object. back into place.

So basically, a big + to the Simmons WTC.

Wait till you try to send it back!! Unless you have the ORIGNAL recipet they will not even look at it!!

Simmons, Tasco, Weaver, and Meade are under one roof, and now require a pre work number, and the recipet.

I tried and was turned down. I am replacing all the above scopes with LUEPOLD"S

it was a White tail classic in the 2.8 X 10, I think? I bounced off of a brick wall after they told me that I was on my own.

Let them take their scopes and NO coverage to speak of back to the far east!!!

Yeah, I am in the market for a few scopes also for Varmint Rifles....

however after experiencing dealing with Meade after they bought Simmons and Weaver.. I will not own any more scopes with those names until Meade doesn't own them...

Currently I am entertaining some of Muellers and Super Sniper's Scopes... read good things about both for durability and dependibility...

Super Snipers are used by a lot of guys in Iraq and Afghanistan.. and purchased out of the soliders own pocket....

combat.. that is a real test of a scopes durability!!!!

I don't know much about the customer service, figure it was my own fault for dropping/slamming it on the ground. Just curious, but why should they need to do anything for a customer caused problem?

Well Tyler,

For about the same reason as every car dealership has a service dept...

If you sideswipe a phone poll, or run over something and mess up your suspension on your vehicle... are you going to fiz it yourself, or are you going to take it to the dealer or a similar repair shop?

I banged up a scope that was my fault.. I sent it back into B&L and instead of repairing it and billing me for the repairs.. they just sent me another one just like it... but it was listed as a factory refurbished scope...

They didn't charge me anything but the $10.00 fee to cover return shipping.... that is good customer service and keeps people buying their products....

I have had other brand of scopes that broke in short order, and then the manufacturer gave me all sorts of grief honoring their warranties...

Simmons, Weaver and Redfield all had good customer service under the previous ownership.... you could have messed up you scope as you described.. and sent it in and if it was not repairable, Simmons would have just sent you another one.. Not any more under Meade Instruments who owns the brand now....

Any manufacturer of any product figure in having X amount of products returned for warranty issues.. they weigh the return rate out when they set their prices for the item and what the market will bear...

how many customers will buy them etc...

Tasco for example was considered a good low buck scope.. they averaged about 3% of them being returned for warranty repair or replacement.. so even with a low cost, because they were made in China and Asian Markets were low, they made a decent profit...

on a scope you buy for $100.00 made in China, the marketing company selling it, probably has $5.00 or less in that scope in costs by the time it gets to our shores.. which include shipping and manufacturing in China or whereever..

Then you have distributor and deal costs ( because the manufacturer doesn't sell direct to the end user) you get your scope at Cabelas, or the local gun shop ( who got it from another dealer instead of directly etc )... each of those folks have a profit margin figured in....

so your scope price of $100.00 you have still paid others a small profit in their businesses getting the scope into your hands...

The 'manufacturer' figures you are one of those few percentages that will need repair on your scope.. some have a no fault warranty, some have a time limit, some have a "limited warranty" etc...

It also depends on how much money and staff that a company assigns to warranties and service...

Meade which now owns Simmons, it takes eternity to get a hold of someone.. then it is usually to leave a voice message and then they will get back to you, which doesn't happen.. Meade isn't putting very much manpower into the service dept...if they replace your scope, it can take upwards of a year as it did in my case...

Then take Leupold... you get a person immediately with Leupold.. plus if you send them your scope.. it doesn't matter how it got busted, they fix it or replace it...and then you get it back in pretty quick order...like less than a couple of weeks, and sometimes in days... Leupold puts money and staff into the repair dept...

however look at the price of a 3 x 9 Simmons and a 3 x 9 Leupold.. you are paying for Leupolds customer service when you buy the scope.. but you are also not getting jerked around like you can with Simmons now....

I had several Simmons scopes go south under the old ownership.. I sent the scopes in and had replacements within 30 days, or my old scope fixed... One had been in several times with the same problem.. I called and got ahold of their service manager, 2 minute conversation with him.. he told me that he would make sure they sent me a brand new one this time, no charge...

That changed with Meade....I have a lot of Weaver Scopes.. but now their warranty is useless under Meade.. I am looking to get a few more scopes for varminting... Weaver won't be on the list, even tho I love the V 16s and V 24 that I have now.. they are good scopes.. one V 16 went bad within 6 weeks on a 223.. reticle worked itself loose.. took an act of congress to get that one repaired! I had to put in a call and write a letter to the Company President.. got no answer, but got my scope back repaired.. after they had it 3 months and then claimed 3 times they never received it.. and I had to show them the UPS tracking number and the delivery date and who signed for it THREE times...

well I know you are a young man, but hopefully that makes it a little clearer to you...

With so many good scopes on the market, with many features.. Leupold is still considered the 'Gold Standard' by hunters and shooters, if nothing else because of their customer service.. and to keep customer service overhead down, they build them like they have to fix them.. solid!

Made good sense, I'll email Simmons about the scope and see what they say.

I'll add my bad experience with Simmons to the mix...
I had a Pro-hunter 6-18x40 which I bought about 18 years ago to mount on an old .243 which I no longer have. This was the older Phillippines manufactured model, in my opinion better quality than the current Chinese crap. After trading rifles it became my .270 scope until I noticed the plug on the power adjustment ring had fallen out last year, meaning the nitrogen charge was lost which would leave the scope succeptable to fogging.

I sent the scope back to Simmon's repair facility expecting a simple fix. Just replace a few O-rings and recharge...nothing else was wrong with the scope. After a week I got a post card in the mail saying it would be repaired and returned within two weeks. More than a month went by and still nothing, so I called them. After waiting on hold for over half an hour they told me my scope was "broken" and they would send me a replacement but it was currently on back order. Another month went by and still nothing, so another phone call and another half hour wait on hold before they told me the same story. Two more months passed and by this time I had enough, so I called them a third time, waited on hold, and demanded a substitute. They said they had another similar model in stock and would ship it immediately. After two more months I STILL had nothing, so I went through the same routine AGAIN, only to find out the substitute they were supposed to send was on backorder. But by some miracle they now had the one they were originally supposed to send back in stock. Within a week I finally had it and I wasted no time listing it on ebay and got rid of it. I got $120 out of it (sells for around $150 new).

It took at least four phone calls and over seven months of waiting for them to send me a new scope which I didn't need in the first place since my old one could have been easily repaired. I still own one Simmons scope, a 44 mag 6.5-20x44 which I have mounted on my .270. If I ever have any problems with it, its going in the trash. I've learned my lesson and upgraded to Nikon and Leupold. I will never buy another Meade product after my experience with them.

Tyler: You're right about a manufacturer having no obligation to repair (under warranty) a scope that is damaged by the owner through accident. Even the best warranties cover only "defects in materials or workmanship" -- these aren't tires so no 'road hazard' coverage is generally avaiable.

However, some service departments tend to give the customer the benefit of the doubt when they receive a damaged scope. They may very well service it, if possible, without charge, or sometimes they will offer a replacement either free or at a nominal charge. Such generosity innures to the benefit of the company in terms of repeat business. Leupold is frequently mentioned as having one of the more customer-friendly service departments, but I'm sure there are others.

Leader-priced Asian scopes like Simmons, Tasco, BSA, and a dozen or so others should be regarded as "throw aways" if they go bad on their own or are damaged. That's simply a risk you must assume in taking advantage of their relatively low initial price.

For $100 just go and buy another WTC. Damn fine scope for the money if you ask me. I bought a used one years ago and it has functioned flawlessly. You can't expect much for $100. I have reccomended these to a few people and would do so again if some body asked.