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Originally posted by oheremicus:
You guys need to read John Barsness's book, "Optics for the Hunter". There is a complete eye witness account by Mr. Barsnes as to what Zeiss does and how they felt about it.
What happend in the years since is quite simple. Zeiss's sale reps now deny that they do every scope in this way. They even deny that they ever did. Yet there are two people over at 24hourcampfire.com who have actually seen them do this, John Barsness and Ken Howell.
What happend is that this caused lots of concern in places like this. So Zeiss simply denied that they abuse or use up some of their scope's life in excessive testing. Because "it doesn't make sense," many choose to believe it. They tell you now that just take a scope and test it by putting it in a recoil machine to see if it will last, etc. But they don't now and never did do what is described in "Optics for the Hunter". Sure. Can anyone explain why they make no lists of reliable scopes by the major custom rifle makers ? That's because they don't last as long as the other major brands. E

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Originally posted by TC1:
If you believe Barsness to be unbiased when it comes to scopes you should read between the lines a little more (Leupolds writer or the year award.) I don't have a problem believing he wrote some tripe like that, but for you to take it as fact shows how shallow you really are.

Have you ever noticed whenever he makes a statement like that it's never in print? If that doesn't make you wonder it should.

Don't be a parrot, think for yourself.

Terry

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Originally posted by oheremicus:
Thier testing only affects those that shoot enough with rifles that eat up a scope. Those that shoot standard weight sporters in the under .338 Magnum class and don't shoot them that much will seldom notice anything.
But those that shoot the really light '06 class rifles and the over .338 class sporters alot may well. That assumes that they keep a round count and know from experience with other tough makes, like Leupold, the Bushnell Elites, etc. that their fancy Zeiss didn't last as long.
BTW, Barsness verfied, after going through alot of people at Zeiss to get a straight answer, that the Conquests are tested the same way. E

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Originally posted by oheremicus:
So you prefer to take the word of some guy you don't even know who works for Zeiss over Barsness who actually saw the scope being so tested. Or Ken Howell who also saw this being done.
Barsness doesn't bother with this anymore because guys like you don't believe him and he just feels it's a waste of his time. In spite of all the details he described, in spite of his sterling rep among those who know him, and in spite of the fact you get just vague answer from Zeiss's people, you choose to believe them instead. Fine. It's your money. E

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Originally posted by oheremicus:
Thier testing only affects those that shoot enough with rifles that eat up a scope. Those that shoot standard weight sporters in the under .338 Magnum class and don't shoot them that much will seldom notice anything.
But those that shoot the really light '06 class rifles and the over .338 class sporters alot may well. That assumes that they keep a round count and know from experience with other tough makes, like Leupold, the Bushnell Elites, etc. that their fancy Zeiss didn't last as long.
E

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It depends on the rifle weight in 300 WM.
When your rifle starts shooting much larger, erratic groups, and/or the zero starts wandering around, you've got a sour scope.
I've seen it happen on lightweight magnums, .338's and .358's, in less than 500 rds. E

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Again, all I know is what they showed and told us in Germany in 1993. At that time they claimed each 100-scope clamp was bounced (or whatever you want to call it) 1000 times on one axis, and another 1000 times on another.

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Now, maybe Zeiss does the same test today and maybe it doesn't. As noted above, my recent inquiries only got "we do it the same way we always have." Many people and companies have poor short-term memories.

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I really don't understand the discussion and hassle concerning the Zeiss Germany scope testing.
Yes, they did test each and every scope in a "torture machine" (like it is still done by Docter Optik Germany), but nowadays they test only random samples, not the whole production. I pay them visits now and then so I know that.

Stopping the testing of each and every scope more than a decade ago has nothing to do with "beating part of the life out of the scope", Zeiss scopes are rigid and it is just not necessary and too expensive.
I asked Zeiss USA, via EMail:
" Please confirm that NOT "each and every scope" is tested, just random samples, ..as it is done at the Zeiss plant in Wetzlar Germany.
Regards

The answer to this question was, as expected:

That is correct sir.

Thank you
Best Regards,
P........
Customer Service Representative
Carl Zeiss Optical, Inc.
13005 N. Kingston Ave.
Chester, VA 23836

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Roe Deer--

Thanks very much for clearing all this up. I never could get a straight answer through the Zeiss people here. It is very good to have somebody "on site"!

John