The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Optics Is there a market for steel tubed variable power "classic scopes"??Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Is there a market for steel tubed variable power "classic scopes"?? | Login/Join |
One of Us |
I was wondering if there is a market for steel tubed scopes in a retro look - something to go on traditional Mauser and the like hunting and dangerous game rifles. Think about the steel tube version of the Weaver K38 4X scope, but make it longer, maybe go 30MM, and do a 1.5-5 straight tube and 3-9 with 32mm Objective. Basically copies of the Weaver special edition steel tube scope. Go with German #4 reticles. I just can't find anything that is simple and attractive to mount on classic style rifles. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | ||
|
One of Us |
I hope there is, Austin Hunter, and I would go much further than you envisage. I'm writing a book about it though, so had better keep my powder dry for the time being. In the meantime, you could search for the old scopes you like on a certain internet auction site. I've found some good scopes there and the vendors are so fearful for their reputations that they generally deal honestly. | |||
|
| One of Us |
well they are still making them. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Closest I can find is the Weaver 4x-32mm classic steel scope. Problem is that it's not long enough for flexible mounting on Mausers, for example, and it's fixed power. Something longer in the variable range would be great, maybe a 1.5-6 straight tube and a 2.5-10x32mm; those are 4x; could go to 3X lower cost/simplicty; maybe 1.5-5 and 3-9? "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
|
| One of Us |
check millet | |||
|
| One of Us |
Just did. Not any classic looking scopes, all tactical and/or with lots of knob and dial "bling" Here is the closest I can find of what I'm looking for, but way to much $$$$$. http://www.nickel-ag.com/en/pr...ts/scopes/15630.aspx "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
|
one of us |
Try egun.de Lots of classic German scopes. | |||
|
| one of us |
"Variable power" and "Classic scope" don't fit very well together. The old Weavers were very good in fixed powers, but I've rarely seen an older Weaver variable that wasn't ready for the trash bin. But as far as a market for classic, steel tubed scopes, just watch what one of the Leupold reproductions of Lyman Alaskans brings when one comes up for sale! For the life of me I can't see why Leupold wouldn't take advantage of this demand and produce more of those fine old scopes. Their 7/8" tubes made them perfectly adapted to lighter 'mountain' rifles and smaller actions. I know that's not what you're looking for to use on your full-sized Mauser, but nonetheless it illustrates that there is demand. Too bad that the scope manufacturers are too busy making scopes bigger, heavier, and more complicated to feed the market created by more juvenile buyers. | |||
|
| One of Us |
What is the most popular Lyman Alaska scope? I actually started thinking if there was a market in terms of manufacturing new scopes that replicate many of the older scopes but with modern glass, fogproof, waterproof, etc. "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Here's a fixed powered, straight tubed "Classic Scope" type. http://www.creedmoorsports.com...3G2-Rifle-Scope.html All the air-glass surfaces are fully multi-coated using the special technology to maximize the light transmission. The reticle is a fine crosshair. This scope uses the internal Elevation and Windage adjustment. Both E/W click adjustment is 1/2 MOA per click, total 60 clicks (30MOA) each full turn.Total Min. Adjustment for both Elevation and Windage is 50 MOA, which is 25MOA Up & Down and 25 MOA Left & Right from the center to the center position. Power 2.5X Obj. 16mm FOV @ 100 yds 24.09 ft Eye Relief 3.54 in. 11.8" long 8.3 oz Exit Pupil Range 5.8mm variable 3/4" Tube | |||
|
| One of Us |
The Lyman Alaskan we hear most about about 2.5x. I saw one here last year at a gun show and it was a nice glass with a good, long eye relief. Leupold made some interesting scopes in the '50s, like a 7/8ths 4x Pioneer with a flexibly long eye relief and 35-foot field of view - not image-moving with those credentials, of course. I looked at egun.de, The Dane, but the scopes all looked too modern for my tastes. Some of the new Nickel scopes are reasonably slim but they appear all to be image-moving. I am a big fan of the old Nickel Marburg models and you see plenty on ebay. If anyone buys one, interrogate the vendor to make sure the lens cement has not cracked and that knobs and focus move OK. I've 'won' a couple of post-war Hensoldts for under $200, too, and they may be even better than Nickels, though their range seems more limited. The biggest trouble is most of these German scopes have the rail and can be a challenge to mount in the Anglosphere, though I have done it at home with bits also found on ebay. | |||
|
| one of us |
The 2.5X Alaskan was the most common, but they also made a 4x and 6x. I'm still kicking myself that a couple of years ago I passed up a 6X Leupold Alaskan mounted on a beautiful little Sako custom job. Leupold did exactly what you suggest: Used modern coated lenses in a sealed, nitrogen-filled tube to recreate a "better" Lyman Alaskan. Apparently either they didn't sell all that well, or were expensive to build, or both. As I indicated earlier, Leupold's marketing branch apparently finds it more lucrative to build increasingly larger, heavier, higher magnification scopes equipped with extraneous bells and whistles to sell to a less experienced group of buyers whose purchasing decisions are largely predicated on their most recent credit card limit increase. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Were those reproduction Alaskans image-movement? Thinking of Nickels again, another old one arrived today, a 4x36 from maybe 20 or 30 years ago. Though its sealing may be compromised (I don't intend using it), it has almost four inches eye relief and a 33'4'' field of view, yet the ocular lens is only 33.5mm, smaller than the Leupold VX-1's. It also has the best field blending I've ever seen, even without a tapering eyepiece - you don't get that or the figure relationships above with image-movement. | |||
|
| One of Us |
What do you mean when you say "image movement"? "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I called and harangued Leupold about this one day. The marketeer was such a dull knife that I doubt that he has ever fired a rifle. Modern scopes are too short, too fat, the bells are too large and they are too complicated. The Leupold Alaskan 2.5X is idea for me. After that is the Leupold 3X. After that are the old Weaver Micro Trac 2.5X and 3X. After that is the Weaver pre Micro Trac 2.5 and 3X boat anchor series scopes.
| |||
|
| One of Us |
If there was a new line of classic, steel scopes, what would be the sweet spot? 1" tubes? Not sure 7/8" would be practical, 30mm too big. I'd assume minimal sized eye pieces and something in the 28mm-30mm objective size. Maybe a Fixed 2.5x, 4X, and 6X? Variable 1.75-5, 2.5-7, and 3-9? "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Not sure there's any point going back to 7/8ths, if only because finding rings could be a problem. Two-and-a-half power and 4x would be the obvious magnifications, straight tube for the first and 32mm for the 4x, though 36mm may give advantages for eye relief and myopes. | |||
|
| one of us |
The main reason for using a 7/8" tube rather than a 1" tube is simply to save weight, which is somewhat important with a steel-tubed scope. Other than slightly restricting the amount of reticle adjustment (and finding proper 7/8" rings) there is no advantage of a 1" tube over a 7/8-incher. | |||
|
One of Us |
To my mind the Kahles 3-9x42 sits nicely on a Mauser. The one from the ,70,s ? Has a 26mm tube and come up on eGun fairly frequently. The best I got was for €50 with a broken reticle. I sent it off to Kahles who repaired it and gave it the full works for about €170 including insured delivery to me. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I must have missed that one Sika98K, maybe because of the big bell. Having used the Kahles Helia Super 2.3-7 constantly for 33 years, I do like the brand. I've heard really heavy recoil can knock the reticle out but mine has been very reliable in that regard. You may have got off cheaply with the repair. Mine leaked 11 years ago and I sent it back via the agent; cost: $540. | |||
|
One of Us |
I am a Traditionalist. VERY much so! But in this thread, I have to bring arguments AGAINST old scopes. Old scopes may be nice to hunt with 1 mile from the kitchen, they are NOT what I would trust on a $ 10 K + trip! Just TOO prone to breakage. YMMV. And steel scopes ... I have some ... it´s not ( only ) the weight, it´s also oiling near optical lenses ... not good. Hunting has become more difficult, under much more pressure, in much less time available. If I am hunting in MY area, where I may have a chance on that not - so - important - buck next day again, fine! ... let´s shoot him like my great granddad used to! Be proud of it! But on that once in a lifetime trip, against bad odds in limited time ... I want a modern variable with illuminted dot on my gun ... the best money can buy! Maybe sad, but I think, that´s the way it is. Hermann formerly, before software update, known as "aHunter", lost 1000 posts in a minute | |||
|
| One of Us |
I'm all for modern scopes, just something smaller than the gargantuans that are being turned out today. Even when you find reasonable sized objectives, you often get huge, long oculars and Eiffel tower knobs! "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
|
| one of us |
+1 The majority of scopes today are designed to be marketed to younger, less experienced shooters who are impressed by size, magnification, and gimmicks like lighted reticles and adjustable everythings. There are some very understandable reasons why scope manufacturers cater to these buyers. For instance, to younger buyers the inflated price of gimmicky scopes doesn't sound as outrageous as to a guy who grew up with nickel candy bars and 10 cent coffee. Younger buyers are also more prone to simply pile another thousand dollars onto their credit card, whereas older buyers tend to be more conservative and buy only what they can afford, even when they can afford much more than they think. Bottom line: The more experience a person has in the hunting fields the less use he has for such gimmicks. But since optics marketers don't find the business of the more experienced hunters as lucrative, they cater to other buyers. From a business perspective I can't blame the optics manufacturers, but that doesn't make me any less unhappy about the disappearance of an entire class of useful scopes from the marketplace. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The turrets! OMGosh! I mean there is enough room in there for a fish tank and a gold fish! "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Have a RedField BearCub fix 4x sitting on a shelf | |||
|
| One of Us |
Is your scope reticle or image-moving, Zephyr? Nick Stroebel says Redfield was the first brand to go image-moving, about 1960, but, looking at his tables, I don't see the fields of view and eye reliefs shrinking from the old Kollmorgen specs until the Sport-ster and Ma-ster models came along in 1965. | |||
|
| one of us |
No, they were definitely image-moving by 1960, as were the Leupolds of the day, which fairly rapidly took Redfield's market away from them. I'm not sure when the Weaver K-series went to image movement, but it was no later than the early 1960's. The Lyman Permacenter (clearly an image-moving scope) was also from that era. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks Stonecreek, it's interesting what you say about Leupold. I had been under the impression that they were among the last of the true believers, since their 1962 patent 3,058,391 appears to show a variable with an FFP reticle not connected with the variable erector set. | |||
|
| one of us |
Companies often file patents on products which they never produce. If Leupold ever produced a variable which was not image-moving then I'm unaware of it. The oldest Leupolds I've owned are M7's in 3X and 4X and they are image-moving and date to the late 1950's. I'm unsure about earlier models like the Mountaineer. Of course, Leupold made externally adjustable scopes, also in the earlier years. | |||
|
| One of Us |
It's amazing, Stonecreek, how so many companies were able to go to image-movement as quickly as they did. Unless Weaver and/or Redfield licensed the technology to others, what good did their patents do them? The first provisional patent I've found on the matter was filed about 1955 but within 10 years most American brands seemed to have constantly centred reticles, all using the moveable erector tube, I presume. PS: Nick Stroebel lists Leupold's models with great diligence but does not explain what tech changes each represented. However, from the ads he reproduces I can say that they were still making Pioneer models with no turrets and Mountaineers with only elevation in 1961. His text claims the M-7 4x (1960-1965) had a 35 ft FoV and 3.7-inch eye relief. The M-8 4x (1965-1979) saw the FoV drop to 30 feet but eye relief only increase by about 1/8th inch. That suggests to me that 1965 saw their moving to image-movement, at least in the fixed power scopes. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Got a couple of old Weavers that are 2.5X/4X. Not at the house at the moment and I don't remember the model number, but I think they are K-V's. They have a side-knob that switches them between the two magnifications. Reticle is a crosshair. I should add that one of them came mounted on an older Sako/Riihimaki .222. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Optics Is there a market for steel tubed variable power "classic scopes"??
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia