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I have a few extra scopes laying around that I was thinking of selling to buy a Swarovski. Are they REALLY worth the extra cost compared to a Leupold, Nikon, Zeiss Conquest etc.,? "In the worship of security we fling ourselves beneath the wheels of routine, and before we know it our lives are gone"--Sterling Hayden-- David Tenney US Operations Manager Trophy Game Safaris Southern Africa Tino and Amanda Erasmus www.tgsafari.co.za | ||
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Out of all the EURO scopes they are the most compact, are extremely well made, have great optics and great customer service and hold their value. | |||
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“Better†is a very subjective word and is open to allot of personal preferences, prejudices, etc. Your best bet is to find one you can look through and play with and make your own judgement based on what you want/need/expect from your scope. | |||
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While I don't have anything Swarovski except for the wifes figurines I can appreciate the mindset that says to get the very best as we can only carry one rifle at a time. Guns are the kind of thing that we can pretty much have what we want as they don't cost as much as many other things. So I say to do what you want but not to sell out of weakness but to take your time and get all that you can for your stuff. Meanwhile go out and buy that Swaro today on the credit card.  Join the NRA | |||
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I have three different items made by Swarovski. A 6x42 scope with bdc that is the best scope I own.I have a At-80 spotting scope that is great. I also have a Swarovski presision magnifying glass. And I plan on getting a lazer range finder when the cash is in hand. Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war; That this foul deed shall smell above the earth With carrion men, groaning for burial. | |||
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In a word, no. They don't do anything more than any other scope, but they are VERY nice. I own an AV 3X9 and had a PH 2.5X10 at one time. I sold the 2.5X10 because I wanted to try a S&B. I wish I had that Swarovski back  All that said. If you want one you should buy it. IMO, best hunting scope on the market. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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I own four swarovski 3x10x42 scopes and they are brighter and clearer than comparable leupolds.Whether they are worth the extra money depends on your priorities.In my case,the extra brightness could certainly make the difference between taking a shot and passing.To me that difference is worth extra money. | |||
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I have several Leupolds Vari-X III and still more Swarovski and my answer to your question is... YES. André DRSS --------- 3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact. 5 shots are a group. | |||
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Thanks for the replies guys. As soon as I can sell a few of these extras I'll be ordering one. "In the worship of security we fling ourselves beneath the wheels of routine, and before we know it our lives are gone"--Sterling Hayden-- David Tenney US Operations Manager Trophy Game Safaris Southern Africa Tino and Amanda Erasmus www.tgsafari.co.za | |||
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Sniper I wouldn't order an expensive scope like that unseen personally. Everybody's eyes are a little different. For that amount of money I would make an effort to actually compare a few quality scopes side by side before deciding. (I sold the only Swarovski scope I'm ever likely to own, but plenty of other people swear by them) | |||
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Good point. If I did order one and decided I did not like it I don't think I would have any problem selling it to get my money back though. "In the worship of security we fling ourselves beneath the wheels of routine, and before we know it our lives are gone"--Sterling Hayden-- David Tenney US Operations Manager Trophy Game Safaris Southern Africa Tino and Amanda Erasmus www.tgsafari.co.za | |||
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I don't have any Swarovski scopes as I buy Leupolds but I do have a pair of their 8x30 binoculars and I can tell you that they are definitely worth the extra cost, I wouldn't trade them for anything. I have also dealt with their customer service and they are very responsive to their customers. I have looked through their scopes and compared them to other makes and there is no question they are very, very fine glass. However, for me, the Leupold VX IIIs do what I need for a moderate cost. If you can afford the Swaro scopes my guess is that they are probably worth every penny they get for them. | |||
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Not no but, Heck No! I just worked over two rifles a while back(trigger jobs, bedding issues, and custom loads) that had the big Euros on them. One, a Swarovski 3.5-10(I believe)x50 or 56 and the other a Kahles 3-12x56. Both scopes had very similar reticles. First impression: didn't like the way the reticle bent around while slighlty moving your eye. The paralax was fine and the center of the reticle stayed on the bull but, if you moved your head around the outer edged of the reticle would move a good bit. Not bad at all just took some getting used to. Second, didn't like the subtensions on the center of the reticles but, may be considerably smaller on other models so not a problem(preference more or less). Third, Glass no better than Nikon Monarch, VXIII, or Zeiss Conquest. Not bad scopes at all but, you'll be much better off buying two Zeiss, Nikon, or Leupies and getting 2 for the price of one. They are very over priced IMO. Just my observations from the very limited shooting I've done w/ them. I've looked through some other Swarovskis and my opinion is still the same. Good Luck Reloader | |||
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Dude, you need glasses if you can't tell the difference. Maybe your not over 50 yet | |||
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Everyone’s eyes perceive things a bit differently and that can be true no matter what your age or your vision. Ask any eye doctor if you doubt that. I also believe that there is frequently a certain degree of “seeing what you want to see†in your favorite brand even if it isn’t really there. | |||
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Rick spoken like a true Leupold Zealot. | |||
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To me, their worth depends on several things, first and foremost of which is "How good a scope do you really need?" if it is misty & just breaking dawn and your PH says "There's old chui Now! See, just lifting his head at the base of the tree. As soon as his chest clears the grass, SHOOT.", then you need every bit of quality you can get. and you can't get much (if any) better than Swarovskis. But, if you're looking from the back porch of your granpa's farm house at a nice Mulie with its head stuck in a granary 70 yards away on a bright morning in Western Nebraska, a Weaver K-3 is probably plenty good enough. I mean, if you don't get him then, there's always tomorrow morning. So, to avoid "buyer's remorse", I suggest deciding first not what is the best scope, but what you actually need. If you really, really need GOOD glass, then Swarovski is well worth the money. "Birders", who are probably the pickiest people in the world, reportedly consider Swarovski the ne plus ultra of the optics world. (I actually prefer Leica products, but it's just an emotional, nostalgia, thing.) My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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I’m afraid you have me confused with someone else. Unertl is my favorite brand of scope, with the older Weaver K series being a close second. The only Leupold optic I own at the present time is a 12-40x60mm spotting scope. The only two Leupold scopes I have ever owned are both tactical models. My son now has the 3.5-10 and M1Tanker (AR member) has the 10x M3 in Iraq mounted on a sniper rifle. | |||
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Sorry Rick had you confused with someone else. Point is I have had Leupolds on all my rifles since I started with the occasional Zeiss,Swaro,S&B, Weqver,Redfield and Nikon thrown in for good measure. Out of all of them when I spend my money I feel the Swaros I have are well worth the money . The AV series is compact, lightweight and has excellent glass and according to some a sterling customer service department which I have never had to use. | |||
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You’ve not heard me say anything bad about Swaro optics...and my comment about “seeing what you want to†applies just as much to me as it does to anyone else. I’ve talked with a bunch of people in the scope business and one of the reasons that Swaro’s, S&B’s, etc., have the price tags they do is because of the extremely liberal employee pay/benefit packages required in that part of the world. Lots [!!!] of paid leave and vacation time and very short work days/weeks. Bottom line, their production costs are allot higher when those are factored in. | |||
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For what it's worth, I've owned them all. The best is the recently discontinued Zeiss VM/V 3-9x42 with the one inch tube. In short, in my opinion the Swaro A line is a bit better than the Leupy, but not dramatically so. Whether it is worth twice the cost is up to you. I'm not sure it is... | |||
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Sniper, I'm a big Swaro fan but if I were you I would probably buy a Zeiss Conquest or a Kahles 2-7 or 3-9x40 for a little less money than the 3-9x36AV. IMO the 3-10x42 AV is a better scope than any of the above but it's a little more than the 3-9x36. For whatever reason I just haven't been able to warm up to the 3-9x36 Swaro, the lowest end of any line usually isn't the best overall deal. I was shooting in a 100yd poorly lit tunnel and had a Leupy 2.5-8 Vari-X III, a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40, and a Swaro 3-10x42 AV. I was using the targets with an orange grid and orange squares. With the Leupold I couldn't clearly see the orange grid lines. With the Zeiss I could see fuzzy Grid lines. They were sharp and clear with the Swaro. I think the best scope you use on your 338 would be a 2.5-10 or 3-12 PH, but they are a good bit more expensive than the AV's. I guess there's a lot of things to be spending ton's of money on when prepping for your African trip. I guess it's up to you to decide how important the quality of your scope is in relation to the other things you need to spend money on.....................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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In my short tenure at a sporting goods store, I heard a lot of reports from guys on their big trips. Only one brand of scopes and binoculars never got a complaint. Swaro. I was told that they are different on the inside. I own one, but don't have the money to take it apart see if that is true. I was also told the glass is different from most of the glass you get in other brands. Most of them are all made by a few suppliers under contract specs. There are some coating differences that seem to be different from the Eastern manufacturers. Again, I haven't taken any Swaro apart, and wouldn't know what to look for on the coatings. I can say from personal experience in the field and with hundreds of customers taken outside the shop at dusk, that I haven't seen anything better at light gathering than Leica and Swaro. All that said. Whether the scope is worth the money is a personal question. Some of the less expensive scopes give great value for the money. Do you shoot in extremely low light? Will you really hunt the rain forests of Alaska? Or do you really just need one. That was my excuse, and I really like it. Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends. | |||
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Light is not something that can be “gathered“ by a scope. Lights rays enter (on their own) and exit a scope...and the amount of light exiting is based primarily on the size of the entrance (the objective lens), the number of lenses, their material, and their coatings. Higher end optics use the best available glass, ground on the most precise machines, and the best available coating materials...but mechanically they are all pretty much made the same way, and the mechanics inside of a scope have little or no relationship to the ability to allow light to pass through it. | |||
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Is this something new?I own four 3x10x42 av swarovskis,and I have seen a 2.5x10x42 pf,but I have never seen a 2.5x10x42av. | |||
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Stubble, you are of course right, I corrected my post. I must be running a fever or something today and CRS.................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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All scopes are worth what you pay if you're satisfied that's all that counts.I'm satisfied with Leupolds they've never let me down in the heat of the S Calif desert or 40 below zero in Colorado.I've seen problems with mounted scopes that the individual messed up trying to avoid paying an installer. | |||
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Talk to the techs at any scope manufacturer and they will all echo the same observation. People pay good money for a scope then they cheap out on the mounting...then they complain about the scope when things don’t work properly. | |||
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Rick 0311, You will like this story. Today I shot my old 40X with the 15X Unertl Ultra Varmint on it. I usually don't use a scope as the rifle is for iron sight competition. I also shot my 243 along with a couple of other rifles. The 243 has a scope on it that I like. It's not a 'Swaro' but still a pretty good rifle scope. It's a Leupold Vari-X 111 4.5-14 AO Tactical. The range here has a sun field in the afternoon during this season and when comparing the old Unertl to the like new Leupold was a dramatic contrast. The Unertl is far superior with no haze, outstanding definition and a reticule thats sharp and easily used. I still like the Leu as it's half the size. I had forgotten how big a step backwards I made when I stopped using the Ultra Varmint and for that matter the Supertargetspots.  Join the NRA | |||
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I’m drooling, brother!!!  | |||
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Yes they are, together with the other three top European brands; Zeiss, Schmidt@Bender and Kalhes (owned by Swaroviski) Over here, where we hunt well into the dark and wild boar 24 hours a day, we need as much light in our scopes as possible. This is where these brands go way beyond any other scope available in the world! Of course this has a price! | |||
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According to whom...and based on what? | |||
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According to hundreds of European nighthunters who started buying cheaper scopes and ended up in buying on of the four brands mentioned. Based on their own experience; you need all the light available when you want to hunt wild boar in the middle of night when there is no moon, and you can make out moving black shadows, doing a lot of damage on freshly laid cornfields through your bino's. This is when the top scopes distinguish themselves from the good ones. Go out in the middle of the night with a Leupold and one of the Europeans. One must be blind not to experience the difference! According to optical specialists who performed extensive laboratory tests on these scopes and compared them with other good ones. Bases on the results of these tests, who have been published in this forum some time ago! | |||
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Reindeer What's on top of your night stick..Your reasoning for Your pick..I have two Swaro's with 4A ILL.Ret.and need to make a trade for Compact Bino... Objectives are 42 and 50..The 50 is my best Sale/Trade..I think the 42 will serve me well..Your thoughts.. AK | |||
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YES | |||
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That’s a great argument...except you didn’t say that those brands were better than Leupolds, you said they were better than ALL other scopes in the world. Last time I checked, Leupold doesn’t make “all other scopes in the world.†Optical specialists use equipment that can measure light changes that the human eye cannot perceive so you have to take some of their testing with a huge grain of salt. Photography is one of my hobbies and I have several high end light meters that I have used to measure light passing through scopes and allot of what is published on this topic makes for great advertising and conversation but has little, if any, practical use to us human beings and our eyes. | |||
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Rick, I must correct myself where I said "any other scope available in the world.; Nightforce is at the same toplevel, together with Kaps, Pecar and maybe Nikkon. There is also a top, American, handmade scope, which I can't remember the name of. As for light transmission; measuring the total amount of light that passes a scope does not say much about the performance in low light; important is the amount of blue(ish) light transmitted, since this is the part of the spectrum that counts at night. Another important feauture is the amount of stray light that a scope produces. Leupolds and other good scopes are well designed and mechanically OK. The quality of their lenses (kind of glass, and (multi) coating cannot match the top scopes. | |||
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Is US Optics the other brand you're thinking of? One thing that really helps these Euro scopes for night hunting is the reticle design. If you can see the animal but not the cross hairs, well.... Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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reindeer, Can you explain that, and include what is present in the glass and/or coatings in your scope that allows for more blue light wave transmission than other scopes? | |||
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