Has anyone used one of these in the flash dot model?

Yes, I have!

Over here in Europe, S&B Zenit scopes are considered the best value for money currently available.

The top 3 scopes here are S&B, Zeiss and Swarovski.

Many believde Zeiss has cut corners the last few years; they have become too expensive and their quality is not on the same level as it used to be.

Swaro is very good, but also very expensive. Not many hunters I spoke are thrilled by their new solution for adjusting the illuminated recticle.

You can't go wrong on a S&B. I have owned several of their models for many years and never had a problem.

I have one on a 416 Rigby. It is great! I have Zeiss, Swarovski and S&B scopes. If you get the S&B with the magnum eye relief, they are the best IMHO.

If they only had a low power, second-plane scope I would have bought SB recently. Had to go with Kahles.

PostDriver,

I'm not meaning to be argumentative. I just don't understand...

What's the big deal about a second plane objective in a low power scope?

$bob$

Well... This one got me wondering...

Then I finally received my Zeiss Diavari V 3-12x56 illuminated scope with the #43 Mil-Dot reticle and I immediately, and somewhat painfully, found out what he meant!

American scope companies (Leupold, Bushnell, Weaver, etc.) have their reticles on the second focal plane and the reticle always appears to be the same size when you adjust the magnification. I don't mean the same size in relation to the target but to the eye... IOW they don't seem to "shrink and grow" as you adjust magnication.

To me that's always been "normal".

European scope companies put their reticle on the first focal plane which means that the reticle appears to "shrink and grow" as the magnification is adjusted.

If you want to use your reticle for range estimation at any magnification (such as Mil-Dot ranging) this "second focal plane" simplfies things since the Mil-Dots are the "same size" in relation to the target at any magnification.

BUT!!! I bought this scope for hunting in low light and at low magnification the reticle appears to be quite thin so fast target aquistion at low light will possibly present a problem and in the case of a "close encounter of the dangerous or trophy kind" it could lead to some serious disappointement for the confused hunter that can't find his (or her) reticle at that critical moment.

My particular scope came with the illuminated Mil-Dot reticle so, presumably, I'll still be able to see the reticle in any situation regardless of whether or not it's on low power but to be honest with you folks I'm a bit nervous about this whole situation.

I was seeking to purchase the ultimate low light hunting scope and might have ended up spending a small fortune (to me) on a scope that could conceivably let me down at the time I need it most...

Here's a jpeg of the reticle from the Zeiss website. Note that the view on the left is essentially what the reticle looks like at 3x and the view on the right is the center section of the reticle at what is probably 12x.



Note: What is actually progressively illuminated (red) when you turn the illumination dial (on the left side of the tube near and looking like the adjustment turrets) are the Mil-Dots and the thin stadia wires connecting them (not the fat parts).

$bob$

S@B's 1.1-4 Zennith dangerous game scope has the reticle in the 2nd plane(it stays the same size through the power range). I have one new in box and would part with it for $1000. Has the #9 reticle which is the #4 with the circle around the crosshair. Probably the toughest scope made if you run out of ammo beat it to death with your Schmidt.

J. Stoviak, I sent you a PM about this scope. I do have some interest in one of these. Send the details when you get a chance.

Thanks,
Josh

How does the zennith differ from the classic other than the looks. I am thinking about a 3x12x50 in one of the two.

I'm not sure other than design what the differance is.Perhaps someone else does.There may be a differance in the illum.reticle.I don't think there is a big cost differance.

$bob$,
Thanks for pointing that out.
I have a few mil dot reticle scopes, but I have never actually used the dots for for turning the turrets. If I see a puff of dust at 2 dots to the right, I give the next rodent two dots windage to the left.

I DO have a hard time finding the reticle sometimes.

So snipers and hunters at extremely long range might like first focal plane, but close range snap shooting would be better done with second focal plane.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:

So snipers and hunters at extremely long range might like first focal plane, but close range snap shooting would be better done with second focal plane.

Exactly the opposite, the long range hunters will want the reticle to be a fine line all the time (2nd focal plane) and the close range work is better done with a larger reticle (1st focal plane, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by woods:

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:

So snipers and hunters at extremely long range might like first focal plane, but close range snap shooting would be better done with second focal plane.

Exactly the opposite, the long range hunters will want the reticle to be a fine line all the time (2nd focal plane) and the close range work is better done with a larger reticle (1st focal plane, IMO.

What was my mental block?
Was I afraid of spending $2.5k for a USO or S&B?
Or am I just dum?

OK, for those that are interested.
If you have a ranging reticle in your scope and you have a 2nd focal plane scope, the ranging reticle only works as designed at one magnification. That because as you change magnification of such a scope, the reticle changes size. A 1st focal plane scope's reticle does not change size as you increase the or decrease the scope's magnification. It appears larger but the reticle covers the same amount of target or has the same spacing throughout it's magnification range.
A low light scope works better with a 1st focal plane reticle simple because as you increase magnification the reticle tends to remain visible whereas a 2nd focal plane scope's reticle tend to disappear. Under twilight or night time conditions the more magnification you have the better you will be able to see. The image may appear dimmer, but you can see more detail. E

quote:

Originally posted by JCJ:
How does the zennith differ from the classic other than the looks. I am thinking about a 3x12x50 in one of the two.

The diferences between the Claasic and Zenith lines are:

1. Design. S&B got one of the most prestiguous European design awards for their Zenith desing.

2. The Zenith scopes are shorter.

3. The reictile is in fact not illuminated; a flash dot is projected on the reticle. This means that with the flash dot turned off, there is no difference with a similar, non illuminated one.

4. The flash dot can be used at night, but also in broad daylight for moving targets.

The 3-12x50 and the 2,5-10x56 are the same price.

I would chosse the 56, because it is shorter and looks better .

quote:

I was seeking to purchase the ultimate low light hunting scope and might have ended up spending a small fortune (to me) on a scope that could conceivably let me down at the time I need it most...

LDhunter,

Congretulations!

You bought yourself one of the very best scopes for nighthunting, because of the brand, but even more because you chose for a recticle in the first focal plane!!

I know you non-Europeans are not used to enlarging recticles, because you don't do a lot of nighthunting.
Over here, most wild boar are shot between sunset and sunrise, so in very poor light conditions. That is why we all choose for rectile "4" in the first focal plane. We want to see our recticle on our target, even in total darkness and the lightdot is only needed to be able to put the bullet exactly where you want it.

Scopes with recticles is the second focal plane are useless for nighthunting i.m.h.o

Once you got used to it, you will appreciate it, so dont sell it becuase you feel disappointed at the moment!

reindeer,

Funny you should say that... I was just ordering a set of 30mm rings so I could put it on one of my favorite hunting rifles which is a Remington Titanium chambered in 300SAUM.

It took me awhile to get used this Zeiss but now I really like it and the reticle is excellent in low light if you'll actually give it a try in field conditions which I have.

Thanks for the input... You always seem to have the spot on advice where needed on high end optics.

$bob$