I am looking to get a new scope with a 1 inch tube and high power, 20X or better. I have a Weaver Grand Slam 6 x 20, 40mm that is very nice. I may get another one, but would like to know if you have another suggestion on a good quality high power 1" tube scope, variable or fixed? Sightron? Leupold?

Zeiss! 6-20x44.

JohnnyB, that question is WIDE open! There are a LOT of awesome 1" tube scopes. miles58's suggestion is great--assuming he means Zeiss Conquest--great choice, but suffice it to say, there are a lot of great options.

Doug from Cameraland posts here and is a great resource--if you could throw out a budget range, it would help to narrow it down--if you don't care about cost, I would look at Swarovski, Schmidt and Bender 1" tube stuff.
I love my Conquest (Zeiss) scopes too, all with 1" tubes

My two heavy barrel varmint rifles (Savage M-12 LRPV in 204 & Remington 700VS in 223) wear Leupold 6 1/2 -20 X40 VX3s. I wouldn't change either one.

I did leave it wide open didn’t I. I do see some suggestions that I like. The Leupold is $700, the Zeiss is $1000 and the Swaro. Is $1500. I have been happy with scopes in the $300 to $500 price range. I have never used a scope over $500 as I recall. Is the Zeiss & Swaro really worth every cent and that much better than a $300 to $700 Weaver, Sightron, or Leupold, as this is the price range I stayed with? Maybe it is time I tried a $1000 to $1500 scope. Are they really 2 and 3 time better than a $500 scope? I guess what I really want to know is, not the best scope, but the scope that gives you the best bang for your buck. Thanks for the input.

quote:

Is the Zeiss & Swaro really worth every cent and that much better than a $300 to $700 Weaver, Sightron, or Leupold,

Yes, they are worth every penny and then some. There is no comparison between quality European glass and the brands that you mentioned. Also have a look at Kahles, you can get them for a song at CDNN, I have 2 of them and they are every bit as good as the Swaros and Zeiss (I have multiple scopes in all 3 brands).

Once another importer picks up Kahles you won't be buying them at these prices.

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/kahlesscopes.html

I have and do own many Leupold VX2's and 3's and Zeiss Conquests and the best Swarovski stuff.

Once you get to a certain level of functionality, you pay 2 or 3 times ...or more for incremental value. My Swaro Z6i is not 6x better than my leupold VX3, but I am willing to pay for it because I notice and appreciate the difference!

A few quick analogies might be:

Corvette vs. Ferrari
Minor leaguer vs. Major leaguer
My Ford Escape vs. Kia sportage or Lexus SUV

Are better scopes 2 or 3 times better??? IMHO, of course not, but how much the incremental value is worth is highly personal and subjective.

OOPS,Sorry, I got off on a tangent. I have found that the Zeiss Conquests generally offer me the best mix of price and performance.

I have two Nikons, three Leupolds, two Trijicons, two Zeiss and one Swarovski.
I would agree with GDOG on Zeiss Conquest as the best value of the money. IMHO it is right there with Swaro, Trijicon is a 3/4 step below and then way down the ladder are Leupold with Nikon bringing up the rear.

The real key is how do they work for you at dawn and dusk. All of my scopes work fine during the middle of the day, but not all work fine at dawn and dusk. Same logic applies to binos.

You have helped me decide to try some European glass. I may as well find out what it’s all about. The Kahles that DC pointed out may be the way to go or the Zeiss Conquest. I will have to see where I can get the best price on the Zeiss and make a decision. Your input was very helpful, thanks a lot. I have to do some shopping, maybe I can find a sale.

quote:

Originally posted by miles58:
Zeiss! 6-20x44.

Gewts my vote for heavy magnification. I have one of these I keep in Talley QD mounts.

A scope in that power range is only suited for benchrest or varmints. Why not look up the statistics on which scopes the benchrest competitors prefer? That might be enlightening. I think you can find equipment lists on some of the websites dedicated to benchrest shooting.

Leupold Mark IV, 50 mm. Lots of options, reticle, finish, power.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnnyB:
You have helped me decide to try some European glass. I may as well find out what it’s all about. The Kahles that DC pointed out may be the way to go or the Zeiss Conquest. I will have to see where I can get the best price on the Zeiss and make a decision. Your input was very helpful, thanks a lot. I have to do some shopping, maybe I can find a sale.

Johnny,

I have all 3 and trust me, Zeiss Conquest is not in the same leaque with Kahles or Swarovski, the German-made Zeiss like the Victory absolutely yes, but the Conquest, no way. The Conquests are made here in the States to compete with the Leupold, etc. and are priced accordingly. They are good scopes but when you compare them side by side to the Swaros and Kahles or the high-end Zeiss they fall short.

They are much better than Leupold, Burris, Weaver, Nikon, etc, though, IMHO.

DC……You make a good case for the Kahles. I am leaning toward getting one. Sounds like I can’t go wrong with one and would find out what true European glass is like. The power is not what I was thinking of getting, but that probably ok. I am now wondering if I should get the 3-10, 50 with MultiZero or the 4-12, 52 without the multiZero. Are you familiar with the MultiZero? is it a useful feature? Or should I get the extra 2X?

quote:

Originally posted by JohnnyB:
DC……You make a good case for the Kahles. I am leaning toward getting one. Sounds like I can’t go wrong with one and would find out what true European glass is like. The power is not what I was thinking of getting, but that probably ok. I am now wondering if I should get the 3-10, 50 with MultiZero or the 4-12, 52 without the multiZero. Are you familiar with the MultiZero? is it a useful feature? Or should I get the extra 2X?

If it were me I wouldn't get the Multi-Zero but that's just me, I don't even like BDC reticles and such because I view them as just something to get in the way when a quick shot is needed in the field. But, that's just me, a lot of guys like the Multi-Zero and say that it works well and it may be something you would like. In theory it is a very good idea and should be really good for long range shooting.

The Kahles, right now, are the most economical way into true European quality glass. They are cheap right now because there currently is no US importer and Swarovski who owns Kahles (they are sister companies) hasn't selected a new US importer yet. When Swarovski USA stopped importation they sold their remaining stock to CDNN who is liquidating it. Legacy Sports picked up importation rights for a short time (less than a year) but I guess called it off due to the economy. Warranty is no problem, you just call Swarovski in Cranston, RI and they take good care of you. I've only had to send 1 back which had gotten beat to hell on a hunt and warranty service was prompt and friendly.

As you did ask about 1" tube scopes I'll tell you that I have 2 of the Kahles CL scopes (1" tube) and 2 Swaro 1" tube scopes and optically the Kahles is noticeably better than the Swaro which costs almost twice as much.

DC….you make sense to me. The multi zero sounds great but if it’s not easy to use, I may never use it. I think I better keep it simple and just get a scope without a lot of add-on’s. I think for now I will just get the 4 to 12 and then look at higher power scopes and what the benchrest shooter use like Stonecreek recommended. Thanks for your help, I’m getting the Kahles.

Stonecreek made a very good point about looking up the equipment list posted from benchrest websites.
I have done that before and it's not only enlightening it's surprising.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnnyB:
DC….you make sense to me. The multi zero sounds great but if it’s not easy to use, I may never use it. I think I better keep it simple and just get a scope without a lot of add-on’s. I think for now I will just get the 4 to 12 and then look at higher power scopes and what the benchrest shooter use like Stonecreek recommended. Thanks for your help, I’m getting the Kahles.

You won't be sorry. I forgot to mention that I have Kahles 8x42 binos, as well. They are superb, actually better than my Swarovski 8x30s but that is probably not a fair comparison as my Swaros are over 15 years old, I am sure lens coatings have improved in that time, and have a smaller objective and the Kahles are only a couple of years old. I am really of fan of their products, as if you can't already tell.

Borrowed from the Accurateshooter website, here is the result of a poll of bench shooters on their scope preferences. This is of some use, but I would suggest that a list of equippment actually used by match winners is even more informative.


What is Your Favorite High-Magnification Scope?

a.Bausch & Lomb (Pre-Bushnell Elite 36x)
3%
b.Leupold Competition (35x, 40x, 45x)
8%
c.Leupold LRT (6-20x or 8-25x)
22%
d.Leupold LRT with 2x Premier Boost
1%
e.Nightforce 8-32x
16%
f.Nightforce 12-42x
19%
g.Sightron 36x
4%
h.Weaver T-36
9%
i.IOR Valdada (6-24x)
3%
j.Other
15%

I meant the Conquest of course.

I think that a 4.5-14x44 or 4.5-14x50 will pretty well dow what you want though. I recently bought a new 4.5-14x50 for $650, so if you look a little the price gets a little nicer.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Borrowed from the Accurateshooter website, here is the result of a poll of bench shooters on their scope preferences. This is of some use, but I would suggest that a list of equippment actually used by match winners is even more informative.


What is Your Favorite High-Magnification Scope?

a.Bausch & Lomb (Pre-Bushnell Elite 36x)
3%
b.Leupold Competition (35x, 40x, 45x)
8%
c.Leupold LRT (6-20x or 8-25x)
22%
d.Leupold LRT with 2x Premier Boost
1%
e.Nightforce 8-32x
16%
f.Nightforce 12-42x
19%
g.Sightron 36x
4%
h.Weaver T-36
9%
i.IOR Valdada (6-24x)
3%
j.Other
15%

Leupold and Nightforce; That is what I would have guessed the bench shooters used. For the Leupold I would have guessed the Mark IV in a fixed 32 power. Stonecreek...thanks for the info.

I would say don't discount the conquests.
In a side by side comparison with a resolution chart @ 100 yrds my 4.5x14x44 conquest had superior resolution to my swarovski Z6 (30 mm- but swaro's top of the line).

Side by side comparisons @ dusk also the edge went to the conquest- this about made me cry, believe me.

The Swaro cost almost exactly 3x what the conquest did, and had less resolution. Granted this is only a statistical sampling of one, and I have no idea if I have a really good conquest or a really bad swarovski. But I think that the blanket statement conquests are american made and crap is a little off the mark .



When it warms up a little here I will drag out my nightforce and Schmidt & bender and see how they fare. Based on my 2 scopes Zeiss $700, swaro $2300 I'm not rushing out to buy any more swaro's

I will respectfully disagree with DC on the Kahles, but with the Caveat that someone more knowledgeable than me--like Stonecreek--might tell you it has to do with exit puple size proided by the scope, or coatings being different to one guys eyes over another, but Kahles (I haven't looked through a new model one in 2 years) WERE not near as clear and crisp or bright to me as Swaro's or Zeiss conquests. I think the Zeiss conquest is the best scope value on the market by a huge margin.

I second the opinions on the differences being minute at the uppper end of the Pyramid, I have Nightforce, US Optics, Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, Zeiss and Zeiss conquest, Nikon, Kahles, Leupold, Sightron, Burris, Nitrex, Weaver, and Simmons scopes.

The tie for the 'best' as far as crisp, clear, bright--my terms, maybe not industry specific terms that someone like Stonecreek can tell you exactly what they mean but to me, a Crisp= very detailed with least blurring, Clear= image appears to be same at the edges as in center of scope and excellent color definitiion, Bright= real simple seems like there is more light on the subject to me.

tie is between Swarovski, Zeiss (both!) US Optics and Nightforce. The cost for similar power range scopes is from 450ish (Conquest) to over $2000ish, NF, S&B and US Optics

Right behind them, and very close is the Nikon and Nitrex stuff I own, which brings me back to say that the Zeiss Conquest scopes are just the best value I know of.

Doug from Cameraland who posts here can help you decide too, there are some new scopes from Minox out, and the glass in them is the same as the Zeiss euro stuff, and they are very reasonably priced. I have 2 pairs of Minox binos and they were a great value--but not as GOOD as my Swaro's!!

Now to wrap up--remember that many of these scopes are not in 1" tubes, like Nightforce..but I just listed everything I have, in 1" tubes--see my original post--or just keep it simple and order a conquest from Doug at Cameraland or Jon at the Optic Zone

Good luck!

Fish….thanks for the detailed info. And your valued opinion, I really appreciate it. Sounds like I can not go wrong with a Zeiss conquest for the biggest bang for the $. I guess I will have to get one eventually and form my own opinion. I should talk to Doug & Jon and see what they have available. Thanks again. I did order the Kahles 3 x 10, 50mm with multi zero, as CDNN was out of the 4 x 12, 52mm. I still want a good scope with more power, mainly to just do load development on the bench.

JohnnyB, I'm sure you'll like the Kahles, they are fine scopes, and the newer versions like you ordered may be superior optically to the ones that I have which are 3 or more years old.

I like the multi-zero feature myself, hope it works well for you.

Good shooting--Don

BSA or Tasco



I had to...sorry guys

Barfska and Leapers!